Welcome back to another episode of Hello Chaos, where we dive into the thrilling world of entrepreneurship. I'm your host, Jennifer Sutton, also known as JJ, and today we had the pleasure of speaking with Dallas Burnett from Think, Move, Thrive. Dallas shared his diverse and dynamic entrepreneurial journey with us, starting from his post-college days, working in his father's family business, to leading a venture-funded startup in his mid-thirties. He recounted the challenges of managing a rapidly growing company and the lessons learned from being at the helm of a business that was well-funded but also fraught with complexities. We discussed the unexpected twists and turns of entrepreneurship, like Dallas's experience with buying dental practices right before the COVID-19 pandemic hit, which forced him to navigate through unprecedented challenges. Dallas emphasized the importance of adaptability and resilience in the face of uncontrollable external factors. Another key takeaway from our conversation was the critical role of team dynamics in a startup's success. Dallas highlighted the necessity of having the authority to build and manage a team effectively, sharing a personal anecdote about a tech startup where he faced resistance from existing team members and was unable to make necessary changes due to constraints. Throughout the episode, Dallas stressed the significance of self-awareness, self-care, and maintaining one's energy and values despite the inevitable setbacks and betrayals that come with being an entrepreneur. He also touched upon the importance of lifting others up and the impact of gracious leadership, as exemplified by his encounter with Charlie Daniels. In a more personal revelation, Dallas shared his past life as a singer-songwriter, which included winning a national competition and rubbing shoulders with country music stars. His passion for music and the creative process is a testament to the multifaceted lives that entrepreneurs often lead. As we wrapped up the episode, Dallas left us with the message that entrepreneurship is not just about chasing dreams for financial gain but also about pursuing a purpose that transcends monetary success. Tune in next week for more real, raw, and inspiring stories from the world of entrepreneurship. Remember, it's all about embracing the chaos and finding your path through it.
Swell AI Transcript: Ep_ 94 Dallas Burnett(1).mp4
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton: Welcome to Hello Chaos, the weekly podcast exploring the messy and chaotic minds and lives of founders, entrepreneurs, and innovators. Every week we get to talk to entrepreneurs from different industries at different company stages of all shapes and sizes. We hear the real, raw, and unbiased founder stories and talk about all the parts of being a founder. It's why we like our mantra, where aha meets oh shit. We drop new episodes every Sunday, so founders can listen to us on a Sunday afternoon while they get ready for the week or on their drive Monday morning. Helicast is one of the many resources brought to you by OrangeWIP. That's OrangeWIP, W-I-P, for work in progress. OrangeWIP is a multimedia company dedicated to serving founders and entrepreneurs in affiliate cities. that we've designed hyper-local media platforms to inform, inspire, and create connections to help founders succeed. OrangeWIP is an all-in-one content hub with fresh and engaging stories, curated calendars, and local dynamic roadmaps to help the founder navigate their local entrepreneurial ecosystem. We've done all the hard work for founders, so they only need to go to one trusted source to find all the local information they need. My name is Jennifer Sutton. My friends and family call me JJ. I'm the founder of OrangeWIP and will be your host today. And I'm very excited to have on our on our podcast today. We've got Dallas Burnett with Think, Move, Thrive. Welcome to the chaos, Dallas.
Dallas Burnett: Welcome. Thank you for having me, Jennifer. This is awesome to be with you today. I'm excited for our conversation.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton: I know it's been I would say I don't think I've talked to you in like six, seven years. And I know you've got a great journey, your entrepreneurial journey, and as you said, oh my gosh, your word might be chaos, but like most of us, but just start us out. Tell us about your entrepreneurial journey.
Dallas Burnett: Yeah, so it is a little bit of a strange and winding road. But I started out in just, you know, out of college, I had a degree and didn't know what I wanted to do. So I jumped in and did some different things. I ended up working at our at my father's family business for a while, but then had an opportunity in my 30s. to take on a huge challenge. I, you know, kind of moved to Atlanta and done some things down there and then come back and, and, uh, was given the opportunity to, this is when we first met, I guess. I was probably in my mid thirties at the time to take on and lead this organization. It was a venture funded startup and we started with kind of an idea and a sticky note that was like, you know, that was the accounting was on a sticky note and this guy had some piping and tubing and we, you know, were given a very large check from the this venture organization and said, go get it. And so at the time, I had never led a company before. And that was my first foray into founding and what have I gotten into? Listen, it was a hot mess on so many levels. You know, this was definitely not the first, you know, you wouldn't want to start this is your first one out the gate because it was it was a very challenging. Yeah. It was great because I learned not only about leadership and starting a company and organization, especially it's really nice to be able to start one that's funded because then you're not, you know, always strapped for cash like a bootstrap, you know, I had the opportunity to do after that, but which is its own chaos. Right. But but no. So I did that for a while and exited that we had just we can talk about that later if you want. But we had a great, great several year run with that. We went profitable, but had a schedule, had a great team. We had built a great team offices in New York and Miami and L.A. I mean, it was it was awesome. But then, you know, it's what was that song? It's it's with the country music artist that my daughter loves. It's Casey Musgraves just came out of this thing called the architect. And it's the song's title is architect and it says you're at the top of the mountain and the winds that trip back and then the embers and ash come and blow your house down, burn your house down. It's like, oh, yeah, that's that. So that's kind of the end of that. That that chapter was like the top of the mountain and then the embers and ash burn your house down. You know. So then I went into kind of a, what I would say is a turnaround situation. So I went into a company, it was a legacy business, been around 30 years, but they had some cultural things that they were working on. And so we, we did some tooling there. And that's really where I was able to hone what I feel like is my philosophy and leadership and culture development, people development, all that stuff. And then From there, started another company with a friend of mine in the dentistry space, which has nothing to do with anything, right? I've never been in dentistry. So we started doing some roll-ups there. And so that's been a project. In the meantime, I was also doing Think, Move, Thrive and started this company that we mentioned earlier today, which is all about coaching and development leadership. And, and so, and yeah, so now I exited the dentistry, actually, my partner just bought me out. And so because I'm a dentist, and, and I've got a couple other startups that I'm working on right now in the lawn care space. And again, so yeah, I mean, we're, we're all up in it. So you're the podcast title. Hello, chaos is like what I probably should have over my bed.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton: Like, that's what I think it defines most of the mindsets of entrepreneurship of its We love chaos. We welcome chaos. There's some of us like I love to structure the chaos.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton: But it is it is it is something that is a part of our world. So so what inspired you to start your own company? Like what? Now you're kind of like, hey, I'm doing all this stuff. But, you know, what's where were you? Were you getting your inspiration?
Dallas Burnett: That's a great question. So I would say, number one, I am I am the son of two teachers. So my mom was an English teacher. My dad was a chemistry teacher. But my dad, since I was four or five, had started his own company. And him and his two brothers have grown that and it's very successful. They do great. And so I'm the son of an entrepreneur as well. I think I was bitten also with the bug when when I was a part of the venture startup and I saw kind of how that was running. And and yet I found I found it very troubling that we could go almost all of the way, you know, but we couldn't go all the way, you know, in terms of culture development or people development. We had to, we had certain constraints we had to work under because of the different personalities and all that. And so when I left there, I was like, you know what? Hmm. I think, I think I just need to do this myself.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton: It felt like an incomplete project.
Dallas Burnett: Yeah, yeah, you just, you just, you have some other things that you want to try to achieve and get done. And so it wasn't necessarily a product or service, it was more about the idea of, it's kind of the idea of what we wanted to create. Could we create like when I look at like, when you look at brands like Chick-fil-A, and their their ability to deliver this high excellence, high service, and, you know, consistently all over the place, it's like, well, man, that doesn't happen by accident. That's really intentional, very intentional. And so how it how that kind of desire to create something with that kind of intentionality was, I think, what drove me to a fix the fix the next project, you know, because I think I think entrepreneurs, we sometimes get this, like, I've got to do it this way, because this is what Entrepreneur Magazine or, you know, INC or whatever says I've got to do or this is what they say success is. Honestly, it's like finding your path, you know, in your way. And so for me, it was like, venture fund startup, totally get burnt out. Other venture pops up out of nowhere. No, no idea. Okay, this is what's in front of me do this. And then Next opportunity arises and we go and start another company again. So I mean, it's really it's really I think that was my inspiration is that I had unfinished work and I felt like that starting my own company or companies would be a way that I could at least see if what I believe is a reflection of of reality.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton: So have you found it? Did you're like, OK, that works, but this doesn't? Or are you still learning?
Dallas Burnett: No, I mean, I guess we're always on the journey. I feel like I have a lot more clarity. Like when I first started in that high-end window shade, business. And that venture funded startup only we were, we were growing a team, and it was a dispersed team. And it was trying to figure out how do we how do we maintain culture as we grow really fast, because we had a lot of cash infusion. And we're hiring people all over the country. And we didn't exist six months earlier. And so it's like, how do we do this in some kind of ways to where our delivery to the customer, the brand experience is consistent in New York and LA. in Miami and wherever else we're going. And so we worked out some things there, but it was my first rodeo and trying to pull that together. And so I learned a lot out of that experience about creating language and different processes and systems and what works and what doesn't and people and how to bring on the right people.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton: A lot of strong personalities.
Dallas Burnett: Oh, man. Yeah, that was a I think that's a challenge, too, because I think sometimes as entrepreneurs, we think if you're coming out of a product base, you know, I, you know, was able to do some patents when I was in water treatment. And, and you think of this product, a lot of times, you know, if I can just deliver this product, you know, to the people, everything's good, I can start this entrepreneurial venture. And it's everybody's gonna love this. And it's like, you know, writing a hit song, everybody's gonna take it. But then Even when you're writing music and writing his song, you don't realize there's a record label that you got to deal with. That's got all these executives that's looking at each other. So they're going to have an opinion, too, especially if they gave you a million dollars to write this hit song. Right. So same thing with entrepreneurship. If you if you take the money or even if you're hiring a lot of people and you're bootstrapping it, you're still I think sometimes we can underestimate the people part if we're if we're in a. That that I think that's been my my biggest lesson over
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton: with Bray, the 10 years, but especially that hit home over the last like three to five years of you're really in the people business. Yes, that's exactly. And and yeah, it's a challenge. And it really self discovery of like your your own strengths and weakness, like you really have to know yourself and what kind of leader you are. And yeah,
Dallas Burnett: I'll tell you a funny story. This was this was the this was the eye opener for me. You know, coming out of, you know, this totally not the same business sector and then walking into this this role as kind of like the guy, whatever that means. of this thing and we were being incubated in this massive company. And so we've got, we're the like little cool kids over there in this like financial company that's being incubated by us. So that you look out this cube farm outside of my office and then we're, we got the cool shirts and we're, we're talking to people in New York and LA. So we just, but what I was so funny is that I realized that even people that weren't even in our company were watching me in a way that I had not been prepared for. Like I would put my feet up on, my desk if I was in an hour conversation. I don't know why. I just put my, I put one foot up and I'd lean back and talk and talk and talk. Well, people were like, hey, you put your feet up on your desk when you talk on the phone after three o'clock in the afternoon. It's like, really? Are you, are you, you know, oh, you, I know you're feeling this way because you started saying this and that. And it's like, listen, I was totally unprepared for the amount of visibility that a leadership role, to your point of learning about yourself and learning more about yourself. I think that's entrepreneurship, especially as your team grows. You said it perfectly when you said we're in the people business. It becomes less about the product and service and more about how you motivate, inspire and kind of reign in and, you know, manage and develop people because that's who's going to help you deliver this amazing service or this amazing product. And all of those people are looking at you and you're trying to figure out like, what kind of a leader am I? Am I this, you know, pounded micromanager? Or maybe when I do micromanage, I lose a good team member. So I got to figure out how to get out of this. I got to start relinquishing some of this control, but I'm a control freak. So I got to figure this out. I mean, you got to have all these kind of things. It's a hot mess on top of the fact that you're running a business that could fail. So, yeah, that's Hello Chaos, right?
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton: That's Hello Chaos. And a lot of us, I think we've, you know, that journey, you might find that your leadership style pivots and changes and evolves based on where you are in the company, you know, and that and the hats that you wear.
Dallas Burnett: And yeah, most of the time. Yeah. Now I know I think one of the things that I've learned is is what kind of people I need to surround myself with first. Yeah. And so I am a creative, and so I'm a number seven on the Enneagram, so Enneagramers out there, you know, I'm an adventurer, something new, something I have swirl moments like every five minutes, like it's surprising that I have a little show already. But what I need is I need help administratively in a major way. And I also need to be in a very somber mood to look at TNL statements. So I get account of CFOs and admins like as fast as I can, as soon as I can support it. And and so, yeah, so for me, that's just you start to learn the types of people that make you better. And I need somebody looking over my shoulder and asking questions like, hey, is that why are you doing that? Was it because I was something just because, oh, well, because it needs to be done is this is a great for the creative, you know, whatever of it. It's like, well, yeah, but the if that doesn't really matter to the customer, then why are you putting the extra time after it? You know, so I think offering me that counsel and feedback has really been good in my career. And I would not have known that, you know, in my early 30s. I just wouldn't know because I didn't know myself. And I'm almost you got to be careful because you almost like you know, you can get into situations when you're, when you're leading where you feel like you have to be perfect, you have to have all the answers, you have to have all the stuff. And, and I was reading a study the other day, it was saying that leaders who are, are great leaders, but they are also like they come across and present themselves as perfect are actually seen negatively by other people. But leaders who are really great and capable and confident, but then they'll have a screw up every now and then. It's like a chink in the armor and it normalizes them to everybody. And so it was like, yeah, he's cool, man. Because I remember when you tripped up the steps the other day, you know, or you remember when you missed that thing on that report or when you said that to the client and it was like an oops moment, but you kind of own it graciously and with humility. gives you so much more rapport with your team because you're normal, you know? And you may think, I am normal. I'm one of my, I've got problems just like everybody else, but your team is this leader, this entrepreneur, and sometimes they can put you on a pedestal. So I thought that was a fascinating study about that.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton: So, all right. So what is the, what do you think, you know, everyone's like, Oh, I want to own my own business and I want to start a company or, you know, I want to, um, you know, be that that lead. What do you think is the biggest misperception or misconception about being a founder and entrepreneur? And how would you debunk that myth?
Dallas Burnett: You know, I heard Elon Musk talk about a conversation he was having with his friend recently. It was a video I saw on LinkedIn, and he said his friend told him that starting a business was like staring into the abyss and chewing glass.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton: I was like, that's
Dallas Burnett: Really accurate, you know, really accurate. And so I think that one of the I think one of I think there's a lot of misconceptions to starting a business. I think one of them is that it's supposed to be this glamorous ride that's always up and to the right that lands you in this stardom, almost like, you know, you know, a pop star icon status. If you start this business, I think that's one thing, especially when I was a younger entrepreneur in my mindset. If you're looking at entrepreneur magazines or you're looking at Different people that have made it on social media. I think that you just have that misconception I think that another misconception is that people may feel like that it's it's Glamorous or it's probably they probably dramatically underestimate how difficult it is I mean, I don't think I've started several companies bought a few sold a few and and I don't know that any one of them No, I don't think so. No, none of them were as easy as I had hoped or expected. Or even when I had a good idea going into it, what it was, there's always these life has a way of keeping you honest.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton: The walls that you have to jump over. So what do you think has been, I mean, all the companies and even where you are now, what's been your biggest like aha moment?
Dallas Burnett: Oh, man. Oh, biggest aha moment. Hmm. I think I've had, I've had a few. I've had a few, I don't know. I've had a few as it relates to entrepreneurship. I would say I'm going to give you, can I give you like two or three? I have a, I had a patent in, and this was one of early, early ventures in water treatment and I had a patent, but I had worked on it for like three years and had gotten nowhere. and like really was frustrated and was going to give up. And I took a call. It was I was in the lab. I was literally like over a beaker, stirring water and mixing stuff up in this thing over this whatever experiment took the call. I thought it was going to be two minutes. I came back like half an hour later and accidentally had over, you know, done. Then, thankfully, I've done that. I've come close to that before, but not this time. But anyway, so I did that. Well, ultimately, that created a result that I didn't think was possible. And ultimately, that aha, that ended up being the foundation of the ultimate patent. It was completely by accident. I would never found that without taking that call. And when what I did, so I think that was one that I just was like, you know, you just say thank you for dropping one out of the sky on me on that one, because I would not have gotten that one on my own. I think another aha moment was really realizing that you have to be able to you have to be able to take people when You have to be able to take people. I'm trying to, I'm trying to word this in a way where I don't, I don't get myself or anyone else in trouble. You have to, you have to hold two things at the same time. Number one, that most people like that, half the people that you meet in life are going to be cheering for you to fail. And, and at the same time, be able to know that and experience that people working against Jimmy like that first you know we talked about that venture capital thing. have never been in a situation where the the person that I'm trying to help the most and and and create something for to to obviously will benefit you the most is yes is actually pushing against me and working against me and and do that so it's fascinating interpersonal downs but you have to be able to hold that And at the same time, be able to balance not becoming bitter and being able to move through uncomfortable situations and still do the right thing and not be bitter for it. So it's a shift of expectations. I think that was an aha moment for me where you are wronged. and you can still live your life and move through it and be successful, but not let that own you. Because I think it's really easy in entrepreneurship, you can get into a bad contract situation, or there can be a supplier or vendor that doesn't come through, or somebody breaks their promise to you, or somebody stabs you in the back, or an employee steals your information, goes and works for a competitor. And it can absolutely just rot your soul if you allow that bitterness to creep in. So I think that was an aha moment that I literally had to work through in my late 30s and around 40s for, you know, PTSD moments, you know, I'm working through that.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton: I feel like I'm in my 50s. I'm in my I'm going through my coming of age. You know, I'm in my 50 and I'm learning some of the biggest lessons after being in corporate agencies for two decades, two and a half decades, starting my own company in 2013. But really, it was like the last three years of, I mean, to your point, it's like looking at my producer who I just had a conversation with him a couple of weeks ago. That was like a big lesson for me that is so recent of don't let other people change your energy and your frequency.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton: In the world, that was kind of like what you were saying. I kind of define it as like, I have an energy and I have a frequency. I have my values. Yes. You're going to get backstabbed. I've been backstabbed. I've had, you know, employee issues. I've had contractor issues. I've had client issues. And, you know, I'd sometimes would stoop down or get really bitter. And I just, you know, that was kind of like my ahas over the last few years of it. it really almost froze me. I would get into this functionally frozen where I couldn't move, whether it's anxiety, depression, just couldn't break through some of the decisions. And that was where I was just like, I can't, I'm letting these other people, their behaviors, their bad behaviors, I'm allowing it to affect the level of the frequency I play at and my energy that I put out into the world. And that was like, I can't do it. So that was my going into 2024 was no more.
Dallas Burnett: I think that's a great point. And let me say this, when you have entrepreneurs and the ones that are listening to this episode of the show, I think it's so normal for us to come into, at least I did. Maybe I'm the only one. I'm on an island here. When I first started my journey into entrepreneurship, into business, I got absorbed with strategy. I wanted to out, I wanted to chess-play the board. I wanted to be better than competitors. I wanted to make this great product or service. And all of that is great. Of course, you want to do that, and you should. And if you keep at it, and you're consistent at it, and you have, you know, that striving for excellence, you'll do that. But then, It's like it always comes back to this, you know, who am I, what am I doing, how am I relating to others. And so we're having this conversation because think about what you just said, you got this energy and your brand is if you're the if you're the entrepreneur you're the if you're the CEO or the founder. your brand and energy is part of the deal, like what you bring to the table. And it's what you're bringing to your employees, because they're going to know if you're off. I mean, if they're noticing if I'm putting my feet up on my desk after three o'clock in the afternoon, then they're going to know if you're coming in with a chip on your shoulder, if you're in a bad mood or whatever. That's flowing through your whole organization. That's going to your vendors, your suppliers, and you can't give what you don't have, right? That's just a, that's a tenant of leadership. You can't give what you don't have, but you will give what you do. So if you're struggling with all this, this turmoil, because it's like what we were talking about, you know, you, you're going to get beat up. You're going to get knocked down. You're going to get hit. how am I dealing with that? How am I, how am I moving through that in a way where I can still be my true self? I can still bring myself, the best of me to the table, because everybody else is looking to that and kind of saying, all right, where are we going? Where are they at? And that's, that's flowing through the whole organization. So I think it's really important. And that's why I think, that's why I put it in the aha moment. It's because I didn't realize the importance, A, of self-care, you know, making sure that you're straight. And am I am I recovering well of all the stresses that went through and just be being able to move through some of the some of the things that the battle scars that you're going to get in the on the field and just know that's normal.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton: Because I think one of the other thing with entrepreneurship and why, you know, we started the podcast and I love the conversations that we have, you know, among founders is trying to normalize some of this of It is going to be hard. You are going to, you know, you're going to have some some aha moments with those self reflections. But, you know, I'm going to ask you this, but like the oh shit moments of like me, you know, even though I heard about, you know, these things, I didn't think that would ever happen to me because they're a friend or a relative. And it's like, oh, like your worst nightmare could happen.
Dallas Burnett: 100%. And we expect the opposite, you know, I mean, we can hope for the best. But at the end of the day, when we hit a brick wall as an entrepreneur, You know it's it's so it's so easy to say this now and say oh well you just you know pick yourself fail forward you know it's like yeah well you listen you ain't seen you ain't hit the brick walls that I have then if that's like oh yeah fall forward my nose is still bloody I can't even see I ran in that wall so hard you know I didn't get out of bed for a week yeah I didn't get out of bed for a week what do you mean fail forward you know and so at the end of the day though that's to know that that's normal and to know that that's not, that's just, you can expect it. And then you can be like, okay, all right, this is, this is what I got to move through. It just makes it easier to digest. I feel like it's less crippling. If you, instead of like my naive self back, you know, when I was younger, just would go into things and I just expect this to work. This is going to be the biggest thing ever. And it's going to be perfect. It's going to be easy. And it's like, that's probably what got me to start the business. But man, I'm rough.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton: What's a story you can tell of your biggest, oh shit, whoa, holy crap, not expecting, and did you learn from it? Or you were like, nobody could learn, this is just an anomaly.
SPEAKER_01: Do you have a few stories?
Dallas Burnett: I know you do. Yeah, I've got several. I'll give you two examples. I'll give you one. you can do everything right. Okay, you can do everything right. And you're still not immune to the chaos in the world. You know, we can, we can't control the world. And so sometimes things just happen to us. And we got to respond, we control that response, but we can't control everything going on around us. And so my partner and I had started these these dentist offices, we started buying dentist offices and combining them, we're doing a roll up strategy. So we're kind of creating a bigger company out of little bitty, smaller entities. And so we bought our first two. Oh, we could not have timed it better. I mean, it's like, because my partner is talking to he's like, he was a pediatric dentist, and he's a great guy. And so he was talking to me and he's wanting me to come on and let's do this venture together. And he was like, man, yeah, dentistry is like recession proof, dude, like everybody's going to get it doesn't matter. It's because I said, Yes, that's exactly right. We go and buy the first two practices, we go into this debt to buy these things. And then Boom, COVID hits and everything including dentist offices shut down and we haven't even got the processes that we haven't even figured out what we were doing. We go by two offices and literally we're like, oh, the CD says, oh, they did. Oh, oh, oh, okay. All right. So we'll, so we can go open up next week. Oh no, no, no, no. Oh, in a month. Oh, oh, our employees still want payroll. Oh, wait a minute. How do we get them all? Yeah. So it was, you talking about ridiculous. We that was just ridiculous. And we had, we had done everything right. You know, we had run all the numbers, all the financials, we negotiated great deals for both the buyer and the seller. I mean, it was just everything was beautiful. And then it wasn't. And so, you know, what are you doing?
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton: buy my shares, get me out of there.
Dallas Burnett: You know, funny enough, we did not throw in the towel, we were crazy enough to navigate through that. We ended up buying more practices after that about about a year later, but we took a year we just took a year and said obviously during the year because we just said, We're not doing anything. We're pausing and figuring this out. What's up? We didn't know what was up. What way is up? Once we got our feet on the ground and got settled, we kept going with it. Ultimately, triumph because you can still do great things. We doubled the we doubled the revenue of both of those initial first practices that we bought in in those over the next two years. And so, so yeah, and added more. So that was you can do it. But it's just like, there was a couple months there in the middle of COVID. And the bank account was very thin. And it was like, you know, what, what the heck, but you figured out. And so that was one. I had another one, I think from the lesson from that is, is that again, we can't control certain things that happen. I can't control that COVID was not even on the radar. We buy these practices and then the world shuts down. We've got to adjust. And so here's the thing, I can't derive my internal value. I feel like a lot of professional sports teams that are really good, or even college teams, they talk about winning is the winning is the result, you know, it's the it's the it's kind of the result of the process. So you can focus on the process, I can control the amount of effort I put into practice, I can control what I eat. And I control my mindset, you know, and how that is, I can control those things. And if I control those things, winning, just winning is kind of the result of that. But it's not like if I focus on the winning, well then I may win or I may not. And so it's the same thing with entrepreneurship. Like I can focus on what I can do well, how am I moving through these challenges, but there's gonna be some things I can't, I just, I can't control. And so that was one of the lessons I learned through that. It made it real. And another one I have recently, about a year and a half ago, I was asked by a friend to take over and run a small tech startup. And they had been around for a while. And it was very strange. I talked to him about it before. They had a dev team overseas and they had worked on this product. The product really wasn't grounded in a need. It was a great idea, which is problem number one. And it was a great, everything's a great idea until you try to sell it. And then if it doesn't sell, it's not somebody's problem. That's right. And so that was fun. But it was a cool product. And I thought there was a potentially a market for it. I've never seen anything like it. And it was in the Shopify add on space. And so they had made a couple hires that I, you know, felt like was were not great. And it was like the some of the hires were related to the original, you know, idea person and all this stuff. But he was like, this thing's not performing well, wants you to come in and, and, and work on it. And so So I did and just was amazed at the Again it comes back to people, you know The team that was there was young and had a lot of energy was very smart and sharp, but they did not want some Some dude coming in, you know a year and a half in telling them like hey look at this or can we do it this way or that way and so I got very a very strong pushback. And which is unusual, because I usually can, you know, I usually can go out. In fact, I love going into teams and building trust and creating an environment. And so one of the things that, you know, I learned on that, because I went back to the artist and look, I need to, I need a new team, I need to, I need to switch some of these people out. And the guy that brought me on that was the original investor on the board of this, this entity is like, you can't do that. And that was my problem is my problem was is that you can't have you can't have accountability if you and or responsibility without accountability. You can't go in and say, I'm going to do this. And yeah, and without having to be able to put my team together. And so I think if I would go back and this one of those lessons learned, I stayed there for about six months. I was like, hey, you know, this is this is not working because I can't do what needs to be done. There's just too much friction here. Right. Neither. We're not going to work together. You know, they're wanting to be the CEO and you hired me to be the CEO. So that's not a good chance. But but I should have I should have seen that on the front side. And I'd never take that role again in a million years if I wasn't given complete authority. That's right. If I don't have authority, I'm not going to have accountability. That's right. And I thought I had the authority. I just assumed that it was OK going into it. But when I went back to him and said, hey, I'm going to start moving this team around. I'll bring some people in." They were like, no, you can't do that because they're related to the person. I'm like, oh, that's the problem.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton: I'm not going to be successful then.
Dallas Burnett: Exactly. We weren't and we weren't going to be. I said, well, then I need to exit this and just keep doing what I'm doing. That was a lesson. That was a startup lesson. gone between startup and turnaround and venture funded and helping somebody out and starting my own bootstrap. And so these are all kind of different avenues. I think that's another thing for entrepreneurs that are listening shows that, you know, bootstrapping is just one, one type of startup. There's a lot of different kinds of ways you can start things up. And, uh, and so I've kind of meandered through a lot of different strategies and seeing a lot of different things on that. But those are two, I guess those are my two. Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton: So, um, I'm going to ask you like a one-off question here. What is something that our listeners would find interesting about you that's not on your resume, that's not in LinkedIn? Jim.
Dallas Burnett: So this is back in, this is a past life. So I made that, I made that statement about Casey Musgraves, right? And she's a singer songwriter in Nashville, but I met Casey backstage when she was 16 at the stage in Nashville, Tennessee, because in a past life, I was this singer songwriter. And so, yeah, so- I had no idea! Yeah. Yeah. So I was, uh, I was writing music and I ended up entering in this national competition and, and low and below who knew it was the only one I'd ever entered in. I won it. And so the prize was to fly to New York city and, and, and they would produce your song and national and you'd go play with Charlie Daniels band backing you up at this big concert in New York city. So we did that. And it was the coolest thing. ever. It was the coolest thing ever. So after that, for like the next two years, my wife and I, we would drive to Nashville about every other weekend and meet people and talk to people. And, and we were really considering, yeah, going and, and being in the country music or at least the music scene. I wasn't a huge fan of, of like honk-a-tonk, ba-donk-a-donk at the time. But, you know, But we were thinking about it. And so we ultimately decided that that wasn't the direction for us, but we met a ton of great people. I was good friends with Lee Bryce in college. I played with him, uh, guitar and with him in college, um, and have funny story about that. So, uh, yeah, he was a junior and I'll tell you about Lee Bryce. So this is, this is my Lee Bryce story and it's definitely not on my LinkedIn profile. And if you're listening to Lee Bryce, uh, it's, it's all good. It's all love. But, um, anyway, We were friends, we were playing together, we were actually going to, we were working on a set we were going to do at some, you know, fraternity party or, you know, downtown or whatever it was. And so, I was, I came over to his apartment, his roommate was there, and they had a little duplex, and I walked in. I was like, hey man, where's Lee? He's like, he's not here. I'm like, oh, when's he going to be back? He's like, he's not here, he's not coming back. I'm like, what are you talking about? He's like, look, and he pulls over, his bedroom's completely clear. I mean, there's not a thing in there. It's like, this is like, I don't know, like a, you know, March or April in the spring of junior year, our junior year. And I was like, well, where'd he go? Where'd he move? Did he move apartment? We got to get the set ready. We got to get, you know, we got to get ready for this thing. We're supposed to play in like two weeks. He's like, bro, he left last night at 11 o'clock. He got a job in Nashville, Tennessee at some show and he's gone. He ain't coming back. I was like, oh, and so, uh, that's hilarious. Like he just, Yeah, oh he's gone didn't finish just left and it's worked out really good for him. I'm happy for him He's done a really good job, but he was a super nice guy then and later we were able to reconnect and funny enough He came back and was playing in Clemson. We connected and he brought us up He comes backstage and was like hanging out with old Lee Bryce back on day. So it's cool. He's great guy So yeah, I'm a I'm a music junkie. That's something that I It's not on my LinkedIn profile.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton: Do you still play? Do you still write just as a, like a relinquish?
Dallas Burnett: You know, uh, that's a great question. I play, um, my daughters, I play more now, like in my early thirties, I just, when we started having kids and I was working a couple of jobs and started a couple of companies and getting my MBA, I was like, something's got to give. So, uh, semi-retired, but my daughters actually have three daughters and they are, extremely proficient fiddle players. And so I have been playing a lot more with them as of the last few years. And so it's kind of funny because it's kind of cool because it's got everything comes back around, right? You know, start having kids and stop playing. Now the kids are the reason I'm black. Hey, let's go. Let's go do this. And so, so yeah, I'm playing more now. I still haven't written very much. I kind of had a I got in a funk with that late in 20s when I got messed up with Nashville and they were like, you know, publishing companies like, we need you to write like this. And handed me a song and I was like, oh, okay, I'll try to do that. And that was not good for me because I just kind of wrote to write. But I've written a few bedtime stories for the daughters over the years just to help them get to sleep and different things like that. But I think I was just telling somebody the other day, I was like, man, I need to, I need to pick up this craft again, because I'm sure. That's right. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. I've written a couple of books instead.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton: So that's that's what's going on. You've won two books.
Dallas Burnett: Yeah. Mm hmm. Yeah, sure do.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton: OK, I was going to tell you a little bit. So I have a fiddle from Charlie that he assigned that.
Dallas Burnett: Are you kidding me?
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton: Uh uh. Yeah. Awesome.
Dallas Burnett: Don't ask. Fantastic.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton: you know, I get a little tipsy, I get invited to these silent auctions, you know, and then you start getting on the app and you're like, I need Jerry Daniels fiddle. So I have a front room or whatever in our house, it's kind of our music room, library, you know, just our chill room. But I've got all these like unusual instruments that I've collected over over time. We got some ukuleles. I got Charlie's Daniels. I've got an antique violin. I've got a German unusual violin. I've got some strange shaped guitar that's from Russia. I've got a tuba. I've got a saxophone. I mean, it's just silly.
Dallas Burnett: Silliness. You've got to have a complete ensemble there.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton: I don't know how to play any of them. Nobody knows how to play. Other than my husband, we've got guitars and stuff. My two sons like to play, you know, they just kind of, you know, fiddle, strum, and my husband plays piano, but the other instruments are literally all collected from these bizarre auctions that I attend. I'm like, oh, an instrument? Oh, I must have it.
Dallas Burnett: Well, everybody has their thing. So if yours is bizarre instruments and auctions, then so be it.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton: I've got to get it.
Dallas Burnett: It's just, I've sat across the table at lunch with Charlie Daniels and that guy, you, you have a very fine piece of, of art because that is one of the most genuine, nice guys, most gracious guys I think I've ever met in my life. Like he is obviously really famous. We went up there and he was doing a press conference. So like, you know, have the, you know, the wall of whatever the sponsors are and you're standing right in front of the door. So they're doing this and they just I just got to be in the back of the room. We were sitting there and all these people are asking New York, you know, it's during it was the year the CMAs went to New York City. They were remodeling the big arena in Nashville. So everybody was in New York City. OK, so they were doing all this stuff and he's sitting there and all the pictures are taken asking questions. He goes, hold on, stops it right in the middle of interview. Hey, I want you to come up here. Dallas, come on up here. Then y'all come on up here. And he calls me and Daniella beside him, puts his arms around us and is like, I want y'all to see these guys right here. I want you to ask them some questions because these are up and coming. They're going to be the next. And it was like, he didn't have to do that. There was no reason he had to do that. He was so gracious and sharing of what he had. You gotta lift people up.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton: That's right.
Dallas Burnett: Yeah, you got to lift people up. And I just looked at that and it's like, here's somebody who's made it to the top. And I think this is a good lesson for entrepreneurs. Everybody's chasing the dream. If you're an entrepreneur, you're trying to chase the dream. Now, I'm a big fan of purpose. So I would hope it's something more than money. So if you're starting a company, please start it for some other reason than just to make a dollar. That's right. But If you have that purpose, then don't forget that all these people that you meet and come in contact with along the way are, are little, I mean, it's just amazing opportunities, opportunities that you have to impact people. And I think sometimes we get lost in the systems, the process, the strategy, the competitors, the stress, the bank accounts, the P&Ls, all these things. And we forget that we're in the sea of people that we have an impact on. It's like you were saying earlier, your energy, your energy is going out to all these people. And Charlie's energy went out to me, changed me in a major way, because he showed a great example to me of how to bring people with me, how to bring people with me. So if you're an entrepreneur, don't just run in front, bring people with you, and bring employees with you. Develop your people, develop your employees, because I think that's, That's super rewarding. Yeah. You know, and that's that's how you change people. That's right. So it's a bigger vision than just a system or process. So, yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton: Oh, that's that's such a good lesson. I love it. So speaking of that, was he your greatest cheerleader? Like who in your life, you know, you said around people, you know, surround yourself with the people that really support you and lift you up and in the good times and the bad. Well, who do you feel like has been your greatest cheerleader?
Dallas Burnett: There's one name that comes to mind. Now, Charlie Daniels was a great cheerleader in that moment, and he's a great man, was a great man. But I would say there's one name that's top of the list first off, just right off the bat, boom, and that is Mr. Rusty Guil. He was in student affairs at Clemson University, When I was a student in college, I was broke. I mean, broker than broke. I had no money and was on scholarship. And had it not been for the unlimited meal plan, I think I would have starved to death because I didn't have I didn't have cash. And so I would work in the cafeteria with the bandana. Yeah, yeah. Give me that similar role. You know, that's whatever. So, I mean, but Rusty will, for whatever reason, he connected with me. And he would take me out to lunch almost every week, maybe every other week. And he would buy my lunch at a nice restaurant that wasn't a cafeteria. And we would just sit there and talk. And he would just pour into me and he would listen to me. And that's really at that time when you're young and you're just trying to figure things out, you just need somebody to hear you out. He did that. And he was a big cheerleader. And so when I met Danielle and we were going to get married, he had the president of the university come over to his house for like a wedding shower. And it's like, Who does this?" And so I would always offer to buy his lunch. I'm like, you can't buy my lunch. You can't buy my lunch. And Rusty told me one day, he says, stop asking me if you can buy my lunch. You can't buy my lunch. He goes, but I'm gonna tell you what you can do. When you get out of here and you start making some money, you can buy other people lunches. And so, again, it's somebody that is for you and they're cheering for you and they're doing it, but they're also inspiring you to go be better. And I think that's what Rusty Quill did for me a long, many, many moons ago. I buy a lot of lunches now.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton: That's an amazing story. Oh, my God. And it's Rusty Quill?
Dallas Burnett: Rusty Quill. Rusty Quill. All right. He might still be working at Clemson. I'm not sure.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton: I'm going to go look him up. Yeah. So is that the best, like, would you say that's the best piece of advice you've ever received as a founder? Or is there another piece of advice that you've received as a founder? And, and how did it influence your decision making as, you know, a founder, a leader, in your own decision making?
Dallas Burnett: Yeah, so I would say two, I would say the, there was a guy who was the on the board of that venture funded startup that brought me on, he gave me the first opportunity that I had. And I look at him and think kind of back and say, Man, I appreciate the chance that he took on me, not not being an executive at that time to put me in that role in that in that chaos. And trust me with trust me with the chaos, you know, And he gave me some great advice because we, like I said, we had started that company with a sticky note and some, you know, aluminum piping or whatever it was. And it's a good design. And he said, look, you're going to, you're going to, the work is going to outrun you very quickly. And so you need to go ahead and start planning how you're going to bring somebody on and who is that person that you're going to bring on. And you need to start doing that now before you get to that point, because by the time you get there, it's going to be too late. And I've always thought that was really great advice, because entrepreneurs, we get used to the grind, we get into the grind, and we're sometimes addicted to the grind. And I feel like sometimes we don't have a good idea and we wait too long to bring in help. and say, hey, I need some help here. And if we do, we do that. Sometimes we can do that in in ways that, you know, may not be as effective if we had had some more time to reflect on that and think about that. So I would say that was one good piece of advice. Another good piece of advice that I've gotten recently was interviewing a couple of those a year or two ago was interviewing a PGA coach. And he had some great PGA players on it. And he was talking about a study that came out of Harvard. They said that I think it was a Harvard study, but it was some study. And he said that they found that stress is not what causes burnout. It's actually stress without recovery. And I think that as entrepreneurs, sometimes we go, oh, I'm burnt out. I'm burnt out. I'm burnt out. I just need to go on vacation. Wrong. I'm burnt out. I'm burnt out. No, you've got to figure out how to recover. And that looks different for everybody. For me, it might look like I go and close the door and write a song or something, play guitar for an hour. For somebody else, it might be running in the neighborhood or whatever it is. But you have to figure out not only what it is that you need to recover, but how often you need to recover and what things would take energy from you that mean that you need to go and recover. Because stress, it's like you said, you know, you're pumping iron and everything. You're getting your muscles stronger. This is great, man. That's what builds muscle. Entrepreneurs, we got to put Hello Chaos. Maybe let's go. That's what we did then. If we want to do it for the long haul, because I think entrepreneurship is hopefully not a one-time deal. It's a lifelong thing. And whether I'm starting a business or I'm in a company, I'm still an entrepreneur at heart. But to do that and do that well for the long haul and not have a heart attack at 35, I've got to figure out. And that's one thing I will say over my life. I've done poorly. I have a talk that I give a lot on burnout. It's one of my most popular talks. And my personal journey. you know, with burnouts is very personal because it ended in my first panic attack at age 30. And You don't have to have many of those before you go, OK, all right.
SPEAKER_01: What's going on here?
Dallas Burnett: You know, I feel like I'm going to explode or die. One of the two. What's going on here? And so. So, yeah, you got to figure out how to recover. And I would say encourage all the entrepreneurs out there. You know, yes, you don't grind it. Yeah, you're going to work some hours. Yes, it's going to be stressful. And yes, you have to figure out how to listen to your body. You've got to recover or you won't be in the game for a very long time.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton: That's right. I kind of like it. You know, we talk about mental health and founder and entrepreneurship and how it's really become an epidemic of stress. But you're right. I don't think people realize it's not just about paying attention to your mental health. It's about how are you building your mental toughness?
Dallas Burnett: Yeah, yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton: And your resilience. Because there is a difference of, OK, I'm taking care of myself. But am I becoming more mentally tough to handle the stress, to handle those those decisions of, you know, the good times and the bad.
Dallas Burnett: Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton: Yeah.
Dallas Burnett: And I think that's the, I think that's a big deal because at the end of the day, what I'm not saying is, is that entrepreneurship should be easy or you should lower the stress or anything like that. I'm saying if you're in this game, it is going to be stressful. You're going to have to make a lot of crucial decisions and you're going to make some decisions like, Oh, I bought a dentist office in the world closed. Like, okay. You know, that's stressful. At the end of the day, you got to figure out how you move through that in a way that is healthy and sustainable long, longterm. Because I think, I think a lot of entrepreneurs, especially when I was young, I just thought I need to work harder. I need to work harder or I need to work longer. And I think there's a stigma, I think, a lot of times when you see social media. I mean, you've got two ends of the spectrum. One is like, you should work four hours and make a million dollars. Just work four hours a week. All right. Yeah, I'm sure Tim Ferriss is only working four hours a week these days. No, no. And he wrote the book and he made a lot of money off that book. But yeah. But you got the other end of the spectrum where it's like, yeah, you know, I sleep four hours a night. I get up and I start working out at four in the morning and I just go to work 14 hour days. It's like, you know, that's not sustainable either. I don't care who you are. And so there's this tension in the middle. And that's where we most of us live. And I think that's where entrepreneurs really have to hone in and what works for them. That's sustainable.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton: Yeah. Oh, that's a good point. Oh, my goodness. I'm looking at the time like, oh, my God, we've got to wrap up. Before one last question, one last question, which I think I know what the answer will be, but maybe not. I'm going to give you an opportunity to like, you know. Think about it a little bit, but if you had to sum up your journey, your entrepreneur, your founder journey in just one word. What would be your word and why?
Dallas Burnett: Oh, man. One word. You know, word and why I would say, hmm. Now I've got like four or five that's going through my head. I would I would say that. Downer journey. I'm debating between two words and they're close, but I would say one one would be intentional, which is kind of weird. But in the sense that it's intentional and that I want to be like, it's my entrepreneurial journey has forced me to be more intentional, more intentional about my relationships, more intentional about my time, more intentional about what I'm doing during the day with more intentional about my sleep, all these things. And yeah, way less intentional. Early early on in the journey. I think the other word is a great word, by the way.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
Dallas Burnett: It's a great word. And then the other one would be purpose. And that would be, I think that one of the things I've learned is that this is more about who I am in terms of not my identity in my work as much as I'm created for a purpose. And it's about that. And that if I'm living in that purpose, if I'm living in what I'm created to live in, then it's kind of like the winning is going to take care of itself. Whether one business goes up, it's like a stock, you know, the stock goes up or stock goes down. You know, that's, that's not as long as I'm living my purpose and living in a way that is meaningful to me, then that takes a lot of pressure off, you know, because my idea is not found in the win. And I think that's really hard, because it's so And you want that, you know, if you're starting a company, of course, don't start a company if you're going to fail or you wouldn't want to be successful. But sometimes we do. And so I think at those moments, I've experienced both highs and lows. Yeah. And at the end of the day, the highs are high, but they're not that high and they don't last that long. And the lows feel really low, but they don't last forever. And so it's that purpose that you're living that really gives meaning to what you're doing. And that's
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton: Two words, perfect. I get different words every time, so I love that.
SPEAKER_01: I love the question.
Dallas Burnett: Good question, yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton: Everyone has their own different words, their own journey that defines them. But those are two great words. OK, can you tell me more? I know you've got two books. What are they on? And then how do people connect with you, Dallas, and learn more about you? Sure.
Dallas Burnett: That's fantastic. Thank you for giving me an opportunity to share about them. Number one, I wrote a book in 2018 called move and it is essentially like a personal coach in a box. Yeah. So if you're struggling in a life transition, I wrote it right after I left. The venture funded startup. I had a few months to kill there just as like sitting around and I had worked with a lot of the Millennials at the time were young 20 year olds that we were working with and they were asking a lot of great questions So I put that kind of system together You know how to get how to how to gain clarity in your life and elevate accountability and do these types of things So it's a heavier lift, but it's a lot of personal stories for me Yeah, it's coaching a box if you want if you want through a life transition Where do I need to go to school or you know, I'm an empty nester or you know, whatever You got what kind of job? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right. That's right. I love it. The second one is called Lift. It just came out in October. I'm really excited about that. It's done really well. We were actually a national bestseller. Funny story, we would have been a Wall Street Journal bestseller, except for the week that we hit it. The Wall Street Journal came out on Tuesday. The list comes out on Thursday. They came out on Tuesday and said, after 14 years of publishing this list, we're no longer publishing the list anymore. And with no warning, I was like, are you kidding me? Couldn't do it. Just one more week. Just one more week, guys. Just one more week. You can go and look at this. They were renegotiating a deal with BookScan or something, whoever collects the data. They didn't like the deal. And they said, we're not doing it anymore. And so they quit back in October. And it just happened to be the week that we came out. So shame, shame on shame. But anyway, we love that. It's a business fable. And it's all about how we create, we shape or strengthen culture on teams. And so if you're an organization, you have a team in it, and I wrote it a business fable. I'm not a huge business fable guy. I've read them all the Patrick Lansiani's and john Gordon's and all the all of them. But I found that as we did leadership summits, and I interacted with people. Most people don't read. That's not the way they consume information. There's not a lot of readers. And so what I would do is I'd ask everybody to read these books. And the years that we did Business Fables, I got rave reviews about the content. And the years that we did some really great looks of whether it's Simon Sinek or whether it's Crucial Conversation, I didn't get as good of marks and on the content. And so I was like, so we're going with the business fable. And so we did. And it's a it's a really great story has a little twist at the end. And but it's it really breaks down some tactical. It's not theoretical, very tactical. You know, how do we use how do we use, you know, reminders, routines and rituals to create shape and strengthen culture? It's called lift. It's called it. You can find it anywhere books, Amazon, all places all there. And yeah, you can connect with me on LinkedIn. Just look up Dallas Burnett. There's not too many Dallas Burnett's out there on LinkedIn. You can find me on LinkedIn. Love to connect with you there. We have a company called Think, Move, Thrive. We have a coaching system. We have an app that I instituted at that company I was talking about after I left the venture funding company. We did that there. It was a service company all over the Southeast and we built a coaching system so their technical engineers could coach and develop people and not just spreadsheets and that type of stuff. So we lost it there and then we ended up turning it into an app and now we've signed up people all over the place that are using that as a coaching system to do one-on-ones with their employees and help them set goals and make commitments and get feedback and all that good stuff. So that's what we do. That's who we are. Thinkmovethrive.com.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton: We'll tag it and we'll help to share that because I think every founder and entrepreneur needs that support. We're expanding our teams. It is. It's one of the biggest challenges that we have is when we expand and scale. It's the people.
Dallas Burnett: It's the people.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton: It's the people. Well, thanks for hanging out with us. And it was so good to catch up with you, Dallas. And I appreciate all your stories. It was great. And so for everyone listening or watching us, thanks for joining us. This podcast episode again will be published this coming Sunday and available on your favorite podcast platform. Please don't forget to subscribe and share, like this great episode and help us build a more connected entrepreneurial community. Hello Cast is one of the many resources brought to you by OrangeWIP. That's OrangeWIP, W-I-P for work in progress. We are a multimedia company dedicated to serving founders and entrepreneurs in affiliate cities. We are 100% free, just an email to join the community. We are a one-stop content hub. And we're right now in three cities in South Carolina, the Greenville area, Columbia area, and the Charleston area. And we will be expanding to different markets over the next five years. Every city, every city needs an orange whip. Check out the new edition that's going to be dropping this coming Sunday. This next month's edition topic is on, I think it's on how to pivot founders that had to pivot their brand. So great stories coming up. If you'd like to be a guest on our podcast or to support us in any way, send us an email to hello at orange whip.com. Y'all thank you for tuning in to Hello Chaos. It is where aha meets oh shit. I'm your host Jennifer Sutton. We will see you again next week.