In this episode of Hello, Chaos, host Jennifer Sutton welcomes Phoebe Sherman, founder and CEO of Girl Gang Craft. They discuss the real and raw stories of founders, offering tips and insights for growing businesses and being effective leaders. OrangeWIP, a multimedia company supporting entrepreneurs, is highlighted as a valuable resource. Tune in to hear how founders like Phoebe navigate the chaotic world of entrepreneurship.
In this episode of "Hello, Chaos," I had the pleasure of speaking with Phoebe Sherman, the founder and CEO of Girl Gang Craft. We delved into the journey of how Phoebe started her business in 2016, creating feminist apparel and finding a niche in the Bay Area's craft fair scene. Frustrated by the high costs and exclusivity of existing events, Phoebe launched Girl Gang Craft in 2017 to provide a more affordable, political, and fun space for small businesses and creatives.
Phoebe shared the rewarding aspects of her journey, including watching other founders grow and scale their businesses. She also enjoys the freedom of curating her own schedule, which allows her to balance work and personal life effectively. We discussed the evolution of Girl Gang Craft, which now includes apparel, accessories, homewares, and live events on both the East and West coasts.
One of the key takeaways from our conversation was the importance of flexibility and adaptability in business. Phoebe emphasized that the entrepreneurial journey is far from linear and often requires pivoting, as evidenced by her experience during the COVID-19 pandemic. She launched a podcast and developed online classes to continue supporting her community when in-person events were not possible.
Phoebe also shared her insights on time management, advocating for a task management approach over traditional to-do lists. She themes her days to focus on different aspects of her business, which helps her stay organized and productive.
We touched on some of the challenges Phoebe has faced, including dealing with city permits and the ever-changing regulations for events. Despite these hurdles, she remains committed to her mission of supporting marginalized communities and fostering a sense of belonging among creatives.
In a lighter moment, Phoebe revealed her recent transition from being an extrovert to an introvert, a change she attributes to age and possibly the impact of the pandemic. She also shared her love for gardening and ceramics, hobbies that help her unwind and find balance.
As we wrapped up, Phoebe expressed her goals for the future, including optimizing her business funnels and enrolling more students in her classes. She also highlighted the importance of having a supportive circle, including her family, friends, and team members.
For those interested in learning more about Girl Gang Craft or connecting with Phoebe, she can be found on Instagram and TikTok at @GirlGangCraft and @PhoebeSherman. Additionally, Girl Gang Craft offers a free craft fair ebook available at girlgangcraft.com/ebook.
Thank you for tuning in to this episode of "Hello, Chaos." Be sure to subscribe, like, comment, and share to help us build a more connected entrepreneurial community. See you next week!
Jennifer Sutton: And we're here. Hello, Chaos. Welcome to Hello, Chaos, a weekly podcast exploring the messy and chaotic lives and minds of founders, entrepreneurs and innovators. Every week, we talk to founders from different industries at different companies. different levels and stages of all shapes and sizes, and we hear the real, the raw, and the unbiased founder stories, and it's why our mantra is where aha meets oh shit. We drop new episodes every single Sunday. Founders tune in to us for tips, insights, and strategies on not just growing their business, But better ways to be a business owner, a leader, and normalize some of the conversations that the things that we all go through as founders that might not be known, but it helps us feel not so isolated. HelloCast is one of the many resources brought to you by OrangeWIP. That is OrangeWIP, W-I-P for work in progress. OrangeWIP is a multimedia company dedicated to serving founders and entrepreneurs in affiliate cities. We've designed hyper-local media platforms that are to inform, inspire, and create connections to help founders succeed. Every city needs an OrangeWIP. Our innovative digital zines are an all-in-one content hub with fresh and engaging stories, curated local calendars, and local dynamic roadmaps to help founders navigate their local entrepreneurial ecosystems. We've really done the hard work for all the founders, so they just need to go to one trusted source, OrangeWIP, to find all the local information they need. My name is Jennifer Sutton. My friends and family call me JJ. I'm the founder of OrangeWIP, and we'll be your host today. And we have Phoebe Sherman, founder and CEO of Girl Gang Craft. Welcome Phoebe.
Phoebe Sherman: Hi. Thank you so much for having me.
Jennifer Sutton: I'm so glad you're on welcome to the chaos Been looking forward to talking to you I know that we've you know, we've gone back to our teams have gone back and forth and I'm just excited to hear about your journey. So we'll just start us out like how did you get to? Start girl gang craft become a founder. You're a CEO Tell us how it all started
Phoebe Sherman: Yeah, so around 2016, I started to make some feminist apparel and was looking for places to sell my work in the Bay Area in California. And finding that places were sort of expensive and exclusive at the time, sort of minimalistic, like whites and beiges were really in vogue, if you will. And so my sort of colorful political brand felt a little bit different, a little bit isolated. And some of these events were upwards of $800 to participate in for the weekend, which is a lot of money.
Jennifer Sutton: That is a lot for an indie craft, yeah.
Phoebe Sherman: It's still a lot of money and definitely starting out, that's not really accessible for a lot of folks. So I wanted to create a space that was a little bit more affordable and a little bit more political and a little bit more fun to really sort of not only engage the communities of small business lovers, but also to really connect the small businesses to each other.
Jennifer Sutton: Very good. So what's been the most, I think, rewarding aspect of this? You've been at it for a while. I mean, 2016.
Phoebe Sherman: Yeah, so the first Girl Gang Craft was 2017, and here we are at 2024. Halfway through the year. July. I have no idea how that happened. Yeah, so I would say there's two things. One is really getting to play a role in watching other founders grow and scale and blossom. That's been really rewarding just to be part of some of these founders journeys for a really long time. Some of these vendors really just have been with us for every show since the beginning. We're doing a giveaway this week with someone who was at the very first Girl Gang Craft. So that's really cool. And then selfishly, I get to do really fun things most days. I mean, there's something about that. a little bit more wild than others. But yeah, I really get to do some things that I'm interested in every day and also get to be the curator of my schedule, if you will. Like after this, it's hot there. It's hot here. I'm going to go to the pool. I'm going to go to the pool for a little bit. And then I'm going to come back and work later. That's just what's going to happen for me today. And it's really a beautiful freedom to be able to not be at the whim of someone else and to really organize my life in a way that is fruitful for me.
Jennifer Sutton: For everybody. So do you still have a line of your own? Is it apparel? Or is it all kind of accessories?
Phoebe Sherman: apparel, accessories, and we're sort of starting to dive into some homewares as well.
Jennifer Sutton: And is it still under the same theme, a little bit more edgy and political?
Phoebe Sherman: Yeah, so we say it's for feminists, for small business owners, and witches. So we have a couple different lines for folks who maybe are under one category, or maybe you're under all of those categories.
Jennifer Sutton: Yeah and so and and is it is it live events or is it online events? I mean all of the above?
Phoebe Sherman: Yeah, so we do craft fairs in person. So we have our Oakland craft fair. That has been our first craft fair since the beginning. It's sort of transformed, but we've been with our venue for, I don't know, like five years now. So we've been there for a while. We have our Oakland venue. We also opened up Sacramento this year. So we have our Sacramento show. And then we're over here. I'm in Salem, Massachusetts. So we have events here in Salem and also Providence, Rhode Island. at our events on both coasts. Yes. So, um, I live on the East coast now, but some of my team still lives on the West coast. Right. And yeah, at our events, you can expect to shop. There is generally a DJ. We have some good photo moments. We've had tattoo artists before and massage therapists. And so it's really like, it's not your, it's not your grandma's craft fair. It's not a basement. It is you know, really fun and energetic and a good place to really support your local creatives.
Jennifer Sutton: Oh, that's fantastic. And I'm just wondering, did the witch line come in after you moved to Salem?
Phoebe Sherman: Definitely a little bit before, but Salem has definitely influenced our witch community. Absolutely.
Jennifer Sutton: Yeah. And Girl Gang Craft, I love the name, is that really kind of builds a tribe a little bit, kind of like, hey, this is your tribe of creatives.
Phoebe Sherman: Yeah, so we really wanted that community feel. We wanted to be femme forward. So, you know, anyone. So we have, you know, female folks, non-binary folks, gender-expansive folks, you know, anyone who's sort of been marginalized or, you know, doesn't feel included in other spaces. So we really wanted to celebrate this group of people.
Jennifer Sutton: make sure that everybody's included. Absolutely. Okay, I'm a little myth buster moment. What do you think is the biggest misconception people have about being an entrepreneur or a founder of a business? And how would you debunk it?
Phoebe Sherman: Yeah. I think a lot of folks think that's really linear. Like, you know, you start a business and it goes the way you want and you scale whatever. And that is not the case. Um, I like to say, I, you know, this is a lot of people say this too, right. That, that the business that you start with is not the business that you grow. That's right. And you know, we've all experienced that with COVID the pandemic, but like, you know, I started off making, you know, little uterus pouches, zipper pouches, like My business is so different now. We have a podcast, we have classes and courses, and we've really sort of become leaders in the space, of the entrepreneurial space. And Yeah, that's that is not what I started when I was sewing my little zipper pouches.
Jennifer Sutton: Yeah, you got it. Well, you got to pivot. You got to go where the market is telling you to go. And, uh, yeah, no, that is, that's a great, that's a great myth. And you just debunked it. All right. So as you like, so you've had, you were doing live events then, uh, two or three years before COVID hit. How, so was that, what did you do to pivot and, and overcome COVID?
Phoebe Sherman: Yeah, so fun. So yeah, back in 2020, you know, we had our events scheduled. we had plans to be in some new cities, like we had planned to be in Sacramento in 2020. And, you know, obviously, we had to push back our events, and we pushed them back, you know, multiple times. And I really, you know, we sort of had plans to sort of be part of the community aspect of entrepreneurs. But we really had to double down on that. So I started my podcast in March of 2020. And really wanted to and we developed classes as well. So I think our first set of classes was called summer school. uh, you know, teaching folks, uh, brand partnerships, email marketing and content creation. Um, you know, we had to double down on our own revenue streams as well. Uh, really pull in brand partners, uh, not only, you know, in the event space, which is what we had been used to doing, right. Working with drink brands and things to like be in front of our in-person audience, but really tailoring that for the online space as well. Like how do we partner with these big brands to get in front of, you know, our entrepreneur community digitally. So that was a big thing. And then, you know, the government helped us during that time as well. And we, we survived. Yeah.
Jennifer Sutton: I was like, you're still here. We're still here. What do you think was the biggest aha moment then? I mean, from 2017 to now, like, you know, that breakthrough moment or some like significant situation that you were like, I mean, was COVID it? Or did you have other kind of aha moments that were breakthrough for you?
Phoebe Sherman: Yeah, I totally forget what I wrote on my first conversation with you. Um, yeah, but I'm thinking about now, like, right now, I've really been into this time management thing. And like, how do I structure my day? And I think something that's come to fruition currently is like, my brain doesn't work like other people's like, everyone's brain works differently. Everyone has different Yeah. You know, like the cool thing about having your own business is like you can structure your life to what works for you and fit yourself into the nine to five mold. You know, I'm not someone with children, but, you know, I might, I might soon. And I know a lot of people who are caregivers and have all these responsibilities, not to mention like maybe another nine to five, right? Like it is your, uh you can you can structure your time and so you don't need to like hold yourself to these standards like I think this like waking up at 5 a.m thing that's that you see on like
Jennifer Sutton: on all the entrepreneur, get up at 5am and work out and all that stuff. I'm like, I like to sleep.
Phoebe Sherman: Me too. I'm a sleeper. You know, I like to come back. I've been, I've been finding this summer, you know, I've been going, I can't work between the hours of like, three or five, like, it's just not working for me. And that happens to be the same thing in winter lately, too, because that's the time that the sun's to allow and you have to like get outside. Like actually working in the some evenings has been a good thing for me and it's actually like enjoyable or like finding ways like I don't know where, you know, I've, I got this thing where like, I need to be really serious when I'm sending out emails and I need to be at my desk. And lately I'm finding out that I have an easier time sending out emails when there's TV on. And so like, that's actually like my, like, you know, relaxed time and I enjoy it more rather than like hammering it out. And I don't know, like sometimes we make things harder for ourselves.
Jennifer Sutton: Yeah, yeah. I feel it. It's interesting, you know, when we, when I started the business, you know, the sister company to OrangeWIP is Bright Marketing that I started in 2013. OrangeWIP just became a passion business of, I saw a gap and a need for entrepreneurs and founders and filled it. But It was interesting. That was one of the piece of piece of advice I got from another founder of you're going to see, you know, they're like jumper, you're going to see that you think you'll see time differently and you'll see, and you'll view money differently. Like, and, and your value of time, like, uh, you know, if you like for me, you know, for the, for a service, you know, I bill out at $300 or $400 an hour. They're like, you might need to hire a yard person that pay them 20 bucks an hour because it, you know, it takes away or, you know, in the creative space, you've got to have time to, I caught on the download to think like you need moments of brevity to go to review things, to be creative, to, to, um, Think creatively so that just doesn't happen in a nine-to-five moment, so You know we're kind of working all the time, but it's like you said it's like okay. This is not working for me I'm gonna go take a break for a few hours because I know I'm gonna come on or You know what I got stuff to do kids got you know I've got kids I got stuff to do on a you know Thursday, but I know I'm gonna put the time in on Saturday and Sunday because it is It's our business, like it doesn't, it's hard for us to shut it off. Right. my little glitch of my, my microphone. So do you have, I know we joked around about the routines that you see it, you know, on social media, but you have routines that you do to kind of like, you just said, you know, keep TV on so it's not so stressful. Are there other routines or things that you do to be more productive or focused or, you know, deal with like, I gotta, this is stressful and I need to, I need to relieve the stress.
Phoebe Sherman: Yeah, I, you know I'm not one of those people who has like okay then I then I meditate and then I journal and I write my gratitude stuff like that's not for me like I feel like I well I also some background I taught yoga for a long time I feel like the gratitude stuff is integrated I feel like I have a lot of uh the tools for uh mindset shifts etc so like I'm not exercising those sort of routines. Um, my exercise itself is sort of sporadic. Um, you know, some of these things I also have really learned are connected with like my cycle or even just like the weather. So like every day is so different for me. Um, I do have like a calendar system that I would love to talk about. Yeah. I am someone who believes that the to-do list should be thrown away. I believe that the to-do list is actually harmful because it is never done, right? If you just have a long string of tasks, it's designed to make you feel bad about yourself because you're not going to finish it all.
Jennifer Sutton: Yeah. Yeah. Ever. So what do you do? So talk to me about your calendar. Yeah.
Phoebe Sherman: So I'm a little bit more like task management. So some weeks are more wild than others, but traditionally, not this week, I sort of, I like to theme my days. So like for Monday for me is CEO day. Yeah. Tuesday is like community. I hop on calls, I do podcast stuff, maybe some team stuff. Wednesday is creative. Often that means content or maybe some brand partnership stuff or whatever. It's not painting, which it was supposed to be at some point. You'll get there. You'll work that out. And then Thursday sort of team outreach stuff. Like I'm pitching wholesalers and pitching partners, stuff like that. And then Friday I tend to have as a financial or overflow day. In the summer, I feel like we are always skipping town on Friday. So really we have a four day week all summer. which can also be stressful. But then so then I take all my tasks like maybe I have that sort of rough draft of a to-do list or like it's right here and then I put stuff on the calendar each day. So like the thing about that is like if you have let's say this thing written down like I need to go it's not get an oil change, whatever. It is on your list that entire time. But you could actually schedule that in from three weeks from today. And then it's on your calendar. And you don't need to keep looking that you need to get that done and being stressed out about it. You have put it on your calendar to know that it is going to get done. That's right.
Jennifer Sutton: We've talked to a couple other, who, and I live by that same philosophy of like the, I call it calendar blocking, the strategy. And it is, it's a game changer. It truly is. And we've talked to other founders who have applied it. And we've tried to get our team to do it as well, because it's so, eye-opening when you go, you know, you could either do a quarter by quarter or even like plan out for the year of, you know, you're right, like Mondays is this day or Tuesdays is this day or even like Monday might be broken up of mornings this, afternoons this, and that way your team knows and you know, hey, if it's in this kind of bucket, this is when it gets scheduled in. And it frees up so much of, I think, the burden. And I do a little thing of, I just call it, like, I empty out my head. If I feel really overwhelmed and even, you know, I'll just sit down and I'll just write, like, what is in my head, like, the tasks, right? And then I'll go in and go, okay, I need to, let's put these, let's just start putting them in to where they go into the block. And it's like, okay, five minutes, done. Like, just, that's just a stress reliever of get it out, move it on. But I agree with you, the to-do list. is super stressful. And it's, it doesn't need to be there. Alright, so tell me about like, your, your biggest like, oh, shit moment.
Phoebe Sherman: I think COVID. um when they're like no events no but i think a lot of the stuff about dealing with cities or like permitting has been really stressful and it's still really stressful getting permissions and all that yeah each state and each town or each, yeah, each state and each town is totally different. I remember first, like, figuring out that I needed, like, a special alcohol permit. I, like, knew that there was, like, you know, you needed to get some sort of permission for alcohol, right? But, like, other people had sort of gotten around it and you get wristbands and you donate, whatever. There's, like, and then It was, yeah. Just realizing that I need a situation because we needed an event permit and just learning about all of that stuff. I remember just like crying on the floor in my office because I told everyone there was going to be cocktails. Yeah. We have to bring it. And you know, it was okay. We said that we didn't have cocktails. There was a bar next door. Everyone's fine. You know? Yeah. But yeah, I mean I think there's oh shit moments each time with the city because everything keeps on changing also.
Jennifer Sutton: Oh yeah, yeah.
Phoebe Sherman: And it's always last minute. It's always like there's something that we didn't get the week before even though we started the permit process like four months ago.
Jennifer Sutton: Yeah, a lot of times cities, they make it really hard for people to do business within their own And yet they want it. Like they flourish when they support the local, you know, it supports the local economy, the more they support, but they are not easy to deal with. Yeah, you're right. The ever, ever changing. Okay. So if you had to hit rewind, is there anything you would do differently? I can see your wheels turn. I'm like, should I say it?
Phoebe Sherman: I don't know. I mean, I think lots of things. I mean, I think. I think maybe well, one of the things that I'm always grappling with is if is if is if we do too much. Hmm. And each day is different. My answer to that about if I should simplify and double down on things. But I also think it's been one of our greatest strengths and helped us like stand out from other craft fairs or other entrepreneurial communities, like all the things that we offer. But it's challenging. It's challenging to do all the things. And You know, maybe I should have hired different help or more help at a certain time, but it's so hard when the bank account's low to hire someone. Right, right. in theory, it's going to bring in more money. And that is always stressful. And always something I think about even right now to like, do I need to hire like a PR event person, right? And it's, it's really hard to trust in new team members and to trust That cash flow is gonna.
Jennifer Sutton: Yeah. Yeah, you're like I gotta It's a risk, right? All right, so if if we met up a year from now What would we be celebrating over cocktails?
Phoebe Sherman: Hmm Yeah, um I don't know. Maybe there's one thing I don't know. I'm like, what can I talk about? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think I, one of my goals is to get our classes a little bit more enrolled. I would really, this is like maybe nitty gritty, but like, I would like to get our funnels really, uh, more optimized or that we're really taking our customer on, um, a more supported evergreen journey to get our classes enrolled and for them to, you know, get the tools and knowledge and support that they need from taking those classes. So maybe we'd be celebrating that. More students enrolled in our classes. Yeah.
Jennifer Sutton: All right. We're going to manifest that.
Phoebe Sherman: I love it. Yes.
Jennifer Sutton: Um, all right. Well, if you could pick two things about your business right now, that you could change anything right now, what would it be? And why?
Phoebe Sherman: Yeah. Uh, more money and more team members. Yeah. Is that a lot to say?
Jennifer Sutton: Yeah, that's perfect. Yes. Yeah. My answer would probably be the same. Yeah. If if. Well, OK, well, who has been your greatest cheerleader? And you're in this journey for you.
Phoebe Sherman: Yeah, I feel really, really lucky. I have a very supportive circle. Both my parents were entrepreneurs, or are lucky. Yeah. And it wasn't something like I didn't really process that until later. Like it wasn't like I'm going to be an entrepreneur because they are an entrepreneur. It was like, I'm gonna be an entrepreneur because I don't want anyone else telling me what to do. And I bet that was picked up from them. Like 100%. So they've been pretty supportive. I mean, there's, you know, there's moments where my mom's like, Are you sure you don't need it? But we, you know, we're like, Mom, I'm good. We're past that. You know, my husband has been very supportive. You know, one of my best friends works for works for G.G.C. So she is Grog and Craft's biggest cheerleader. And I have some friends who are really, you know, really supportive. So I've been very I'm very, very grateful for for my circle.
Jennifer Sutton: I love it. What, OK, so you, you've given everybody kind of like a little bit of flair of what you, of what you're into and your interests. But is there something that our listeners would be surprised to learn about you that they can't find on LinkedIn or on your website that's just, you know, something really interesting?
Phoebe Sherman: I don't know if anything's super interesting, but I'm really enjoying gardening right now. I just pulled off my first cucumber that was pretty big. Very good. Was it delicious? Did you eat it? Yeah, it was really good. Yeah, I like to try and find time for my hobbies. I recently dived into ceramics. And I love ceramics. I'm trying to get back into sewing. I kind of hate sewing. It's sort of like a love-hate relationship.
Jennifer Sutton: Well, it was like you had to do it then for business versus pleasure. So now you're trying to like, okay, how do I get back into that?
Phoebe Sherman: Yeah, I just wish, you know, the machine, I don't know, it's sometimes chaotic. But yeah, let's see. I just I like to, you know, really take care of myself as much as possible when I have spare time. Maybe this is interesting. I am an ex extrovert. I've recently transitioned to be an introvert.
Jennifer Sutton: Okay, now talk to me about that. That is weird.
Phoebe Sherman: Um, yeah, it's weird.
Jennifer Sutton: I've never heard the term ex extrovert. Yeah. And I am a I am an introvert that most people think I'm an extrovert. But I am very comfortable being in my hole.
Phoebe Sherman: Yeah, I hear it. I think I would be the same way. I think I was an extrovert my whole life until a few years ago. And maybe it was COVID related. Maybe it was age. Maybe it was, I don't know. But I'm definitely an introvert now. And it takes a lot more out of me to be around folks. I enjoy it. I love people. But I have a little bit more of a time frame.
Jennifer Sutton: Yeah, like that before. So before you were energized, like you, you fed off the energy from others. Yeah. Now, that same like, crowds or experience, it drains you.
Phoebe Sherman: Yeah, I mean, it depends who, and the circumstances, and for how long, and all that stuff. But yeah.
Jennifer Sutton: Yeah, it'll take a, I mean, if I have to be around, or do a presentation, I have to be on. Or if I go to an event, and I have to like, I'm the worst networker. And I know it's so important. And I love doing, I'm like, I see the purpose, and I love meeting people. But man, when I get home, it's like, I'm out. It has drained me. So now you're one of us. Welcome to the club.
Phoebe Sherman: Yeah, and it's a weird adjustment. I kind of have to like recalibrate things and like it's sort of a new understanding of my needs.
Jennifer Sutton: Yeah, that's crazy. I'm gonna have to look up to go can Are there more ex-extroverts that are coming into the introvert space because of foundership? So are you an app? I know you have your own podcast. And it's called Girl Gang Craft too, right? Are there other podcasts or resources that you've really found helpful? in your journey of becoming a founder and being a CEO? Where do you go and seek information and content?
Phoebe Sherman: Yeah, I feel like I really go through podcast phases of when I'm listening to or when I'm not. I feel like lately I haven't been. I think that's because it depends if I'm weightlifting or if I'm going into a spa. Obviously, I don't listen to podcasts if I'm in a class, and I've been doing a lot of Pilates lately. And yeah, I can't listen to podcasts while I work because I really have to focus.
Jennifer Sutton: Yeah, I can't either. It has to be something where I can pay attention.
Phoebe Sherman: Yeah. So, but in the past, I mean, definitely Jenna Kutcher, Amy Porterfield, and some like witchy podcasts. Let's see, Sarah Goddess Steamer, she has a podcast. Oh, Hurry Slowly by Jocelyn K. Gley.
Jennifer Sutton: That's a good one. That sounds like a really good one.
Phoebe Sherman: Yeah, I'm really, I'm, I've been interested, again, in this time management thing that's like, how do we structure our days as founders? How do we structure our days as humans? And so I find a lot of those really helpful. I mean, I remember Jenna Kutcher was like, her podcast was the first one who got me to like, understand a funnel and make like my first funnel. And that was so valuable. But lately I'm less about tangible tips and tricks and more about like, I have so many things and how do I do them all? Where is the time? How do I sit down and do this?
Jennifer Sutton: I think I know how to do the thing, but I need the time. That's fascinating. What, so as you were listening to those podcasts, what was the best piece of advice that you, or, or just generally, that you received as a founder that really influenced your own decision-making?
Phoebe Sherman: I don't know. I'm just, I think I just think that like, maybe just the be patient with yourself vibe. I mean, that's not like a particular piece of advice, but it comes through in multiple ways. Like, you know, I don't think we hear that enough. Yeah. Like your journey is not going to look like anyone else's. Like you're, you know, you're right now, like, don't compare yourself to someone else's like, farther along in the journey or whatever that, whatever that means further along to like, maybe that's just BS too, but. your journey, your business is so unique that compare it to someone else's. It doesn't make sense. No. And I think what I've learned also is that comparison stuff can really be a trap and can be really be a time suck and like figuring out what actually this is from how to be a millionaire. What's her name? I don't remember her name. She says, you know, like, what are some, like, what are some actions that you can do right now to bring in cash? And that is really tangible and action oriented. And like, okay, so I'm gonna send 10 emails to partners, I'm going to send 10 emails to wholesale, I'm gonna, you know, send uh, my last 20 customers, a discount code, whatever it is, like how can you bring in cash right now? And that has saved my business multiple times.
Jennifer Sutton: Wow. Yeah.
Phoebe Sherman: Like this combination of like, okay, like let's take care of ourselves. Let's like honor our body, honor our mood, honor our whatever. And also How do we bring in money right?
Jennifer Sutton: Right. And have patience to go the things that you're planning for your business. Some stuff is, you know, the, I think we, we as founders and even business, I mean, I work with a lot of, you know, even mature companies and, and it's like, you got to realize what the runway is on some decisions. You know, if you're thinking that this social media activity is going to generate something immediate, that's probably the wrong expectation, like some stuff has a longer runway. And you're right, I think so many times I think we get caught up in the competitive or the like, there's got to be a formula, there's got to be a template. And it's like, there really isn't like every business is unique. Every founder's journey is unique. And because everyone has different goals, different product setups, different infrastructure, different budgets. and goals that, yeah, there isn't, you can't just look at somebody else from an outsider and go, I want to mimic what they're doing, because you really don't know what they're doing. You got to be like, more patient with yourself and really just have more, more trust in yourself to know you're making the right decisions. Right? You're doing, you're doing the right things. Speaking of your entrepreneurial journey, you know, if you had to sum up in just one word, Phoebe, what would that word be to describe your journey?
Phoebe Sherman: I have written down trial. Oh. Yeah. I love it. I would say trial and error, but just one word. Yeah, I think it's just all, it's a, you gotta try things. Yeah. And maybe experiment. Maybe that's a better one. I like to think of everything as an experiment, right? You can throw spaghetti at the wall, see what sticks, see what happens. And I think, yeah, you have to have it feel a little bit playful. It can't be too serious. You have to sort of try these things and be an observer. Figure out what is working, what is not working, and take it all with a grain of salt.
Jennifer Sutton: Yeah, especially if, you know, like you said, you're, you're catering to a specific community, growing that community, listening to that community, and to see how far you have come over the, was it seven years, eight? You're going on almost eight years? Whoa, yeah. And how we've, you evolved to like, just so in the little, your uterus. pouches to now where you are today.
Phoebe Sherman: And also the world's changed so much too. I mean, obviously none of us could have predicted COVID, all of these things. So like, I think you really have to be flexible with, uh, you know, your experience, your customer's experience, where gaps are in the market, uh, you know, what the market is, what is happening. Um, you know, maybe even throwing some sustainability in there. Like, how are we pivoting to really like support the world and the community?
Jennifer Sutton: Yeah. Oh, I love it. Experiments. I love the word. That's great. Well, this these things goes by so fast. I'm always amazed at how fast the episodes are. Before we leave, though, I want to thank you for hanging out. But where can people connect and find out more information about Girl Gang Craft or on you personally? How do you want people to connect with you?
Phoebe Sherman: Yeah, you can follow Girl Gang Craft at Girl Gang Craft. or me at Phoebe Sherman, P-H-O-E-B-E Sherman, S-H-E-R-M-A-N, both on Instagram and TikTok. And yeah, maybe you're a crafter and you need some help with some craft fair stuff. We do have a craft fair ebook. That's available at girlgangcraft.com slash ebook. And that helps you with like booth design, some selling tips, stuff like that. And that's free for you all.
Jennifer Sutton: Oh, my gosh. And we'll make sure that we tag all that when we publish this and give you guys some great shoutouts. Phoebe, thank you so much for hanging out. I appreciate it. I love the conversation. I hope you enjoyed it. And for everyone listening and watching us live, thank you for joining us. This podcast episode will again be coming out this Sunday available on your favorite podcast platforms. So subscribe to Hello Chaos, like, comment, and share this great episode and help us build a more connected entrepreneurial community. Hello Chaos is one of the many resources brought to you by OrangeWIP. That is OrangeWIP, W-I-P for work in progress. OrangeWIP is a multimedia company dedicated to serving founders and entrepreneurs in affiliate cities. We're in three cities in South Carolina and coming to a city near you any day. Every city needs an OrangeWIP. Just an email to join the community. It is a one-stop content hub just for founders delivered in an innovative digital zine experience. If you'd like to be a guest on our podcast or support us, send us an email to hello at orange whip.com. Y'all thank you for tuning in. And, uh, hello chaos is where aha meets. Oh shit. I am your host, Jennifer Sutton, JJ. We will see you again next week.