In this episode of Hello Chaos, Jennifer "JJ" Sutton interviews Dean Mercado, founder and CEO of Online Marketing Muscle. They discuss Dean's entrepreneurial journey, the transition from corporate America to entrepreneurship, the importance of mentorship, and the challenges of balancing family life with business. Dean shares insights on the realities of entrepreneurship, the necessity of self-reflection, and the influence of various books and mentors on his growth. He discusses pivotal advice from coaches, the significance of team dynamics, and the necessity of authenticity in branding. The dialogue also highlights the current crisis in marketing, the art and science behind effective strategies, and the critical role of coaches in guiding business owners towards success.
Key Takeaways
1. The Importance of Self-Discovery
2. The Reality of Entrepreneurship
3. The Value of Mentorship
Timestamps
00:00 Introduction to Dean Mercado
04:55 Dean's Entrepreneurial Journey
13:52 The Importance of Adaptability
16:45 Navigating Personal and Professional Challenges
22:52 Finding Purpose and Mentorship
28:54 Key Lessons from Mentors
31:45 Final Thoughts and Advice
39:20 Self-Recognition: What Do You Wish Others Saw?
41:17 The Journey to Coaching: From Consultant to Mentor
48:14 The Art and Science of Marketing: Navigating Chaos
50:54 Finding Clarity: Knowing What You Want
01:03:09 The Journey of Entrepreneurship: Learning and Growth
01:09:18 The Intersection of Offline and Online Worlds
01:17:49 The Nature of Chaos
Connect with Dean:
Website: https://deanmercado.com/
Website: https://onlinemarketingmuscle.com/
YouTube: www.youtube.com/@DeanMercado
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/deanmercado/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/DeanMercado
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (00:15)
Welcome to Hello Chaos, a weekly podcast exploring the messy and chaotic minds and lives of founders, entrepreneurs, and innovators. Every week we talk to founders from different industries at various stages. Of all shapes and sizes, we hear the real, the raw, the unbiased founder stories. It's why our mantra is where aha meets shit. We drop new episodes every Sunday. Founders tune in to us for tips, insights, and strategies on growing their business or ways to be to be better owners and leaders, or to find a community of like -minded and mission and like mission people and no longer feel alone. HelloCast is one of the many resources brought to you by OrangeWIP. That is OrangeWIP WIP for work in progress. OrangeWIP is a multimedia company dedicated to serving founders and entrepreneurs in affiliate cities. We've designed hyper local media platforms to inform, inspire. and be the independent connective tissue between founders and their entrepreneurial ecosystem. Our innovative digital zines are an all -in -one content hub with fresh and engaging stories, curated calendars, and local dynamic roadmaps to help founders navigate those local ecosystems with ease. We've really done all the hard work for founders, so they only need to go to one trusted place to find the local information they need. We're in three South Carolina cities today, looking to expand to cities across the country, because every city that has entrepreneurs and founders needs an OrangeWIP. This is Jennifer Sutton. My friends and family call me JJ. I am the founder of OrangeWIP and Bright Marketing, and I'll be your host today. So welcome to Hello Chaos.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (02:00)
Well, welcome everybody. Today we have Dean Mercado. Did I pronounce that name right? Mercado. I was like Mercado, Mercado, Avocado. No, I'm just kidding. Dean Mercado, founder and CEO of Online Marketing Muscle. But Dean is also a best -selling author, coach, and keynote speaker. And he is actually right in our back door. I didn't even realize that we were in the same town. So welcome to Hello Chaos.
Dean Mercado (02:05)
Mercado.
Hahaha
Yeah.
Well thank you JJ, I'm so glad to be here with you.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (02:31)
I am so glad you're here and chatting with me all about your entrepreneurial journey because you have been in it way longer. I've been in it about 10 plus years. I started my company in 2013. You were what, 2004 for this company, but you go even beyond that.
Dean Mercado (02:47)
For this company, 2004, yes.
I would say I was a born entrepreneur to some degree. Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (02:54)
all right, well, start us out. Tell me about your journey. How in the world did you get started in the world of entrepreneurship?
Dean Mercado (03:03)
Right, right. Now, I'll preface this by saying I've always kind of been an entrepreneur, I just didn't know it. You know, I was the kid out there washing the cars, mowing the lawns, doing all that stuff as a youth. Anything to make enough money to go to the movies and pay for the things that I wanted to do while I was younger. But as was common for my age group at least, it's the programming that happens where it's like,
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (03:22)
Yeah.
Dean Mercado (03:33)
College, job, family, college, job, family. And that got drilled into me. I am one of five brothers. So I'm number four. And I was the baby for a long time until the accident happened behind me. so yeah, so I was the first to really where my parents were like, I'm going to go to college. My other brothers all followed in dad's footsteps as electricians. But yeah, so.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (03:36)
Right.
What order? What order? You're number four.
Okay.
Dean Mercado (04:01)
I went through the college thing and then I went to the master's degree thing and then after a while I was like, I still don't know what I want to be when I grow up kind of a thing. yeah, so college was fun. And then I went into big corporate America. I did my thing there for about a dozen years and that was fun. I had huge successes. I was getting a chance to travel a lot or spending a lot of time in different places around the world.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (04:18)
Yeah.
Dean Mercado (04:29)
And that was great, running multi -million dollar projects around the world. That was all fun and great. But then came the point where I started getting toward my later 20s, toward 30, where it was like, all right, I can't possibly start a family. I can't possibly have the other things that I really want for my life and still do what I was doing. And honestly, my feet were sleeping. when you're an entrepreneur and you're wired that way,
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (04:46)
Yeah. Yeah.
Dean Mercado (04:55)
doing the same things every day as in corporate America just doesn't float very well for you. That's right, and it was. And it was starting to give me signs like crazy that I needed to change and shift gears. And I remember there was a point in time where one of my guys who worked for me came up to me and basically was like, what the heck are you doing here? Why are you here? He goes to me he said,
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (05:00)
Now your body will start reacting.
Dean Mercado (05:24)
you're one of the two smartest people I've ever met. And my response was something along the lines with my smart ass New York accent and stuff was, then you must not get out very much. But he's like, the other smartest guy is my cousin. He's a business owner. You two just need to meet and figure it out. We met, we figured it out, we started a business. That was the first formal.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (05:34)
Yeah.
Okay.
Dean Mercado (05:51)
formal business. had several things before that. This is going back to about 2002. But sparing you all the little attempts going through college and stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah. So it it seem serious. Right. Exactly. Exactly. We had we did the legal route, got the the proper papers drawn up between us. But you know,
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (05:52)
I, where, yeah.
Okay.
This was a real bit like you had a partner. You had a form, like an official document, right?
Dean Mercado (06:20)
It didn't work out so well. As many times, it was in technology because I came out of big corporate America, came out of big technology, installing IT around the planet. And so I thought, hey, why not? Might as well start a business that's in the same vein. It's what I know. Only to realize I hated it. I no longer liked it at all. My feet were sleeping long enough in corporate America doing it. Why did I want to continue doing it? So.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (06:21)
What was that business in? What was it in? Okay.
Yeah.
Right?
Dean Mercado (06:49)
Then came the soul searching to figure out, what I will want to be when I grow up, once again in my life. yeah, I spoke to my fiance at the time, who is my wife now. And it was like, we've got to do something different. This isn't working. The partner, and there were two partners, actually. But they weren't really ready to make the commitment I was ready to make. They weren't ready to.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (06:53)
Right.
I'm still searching, no I'm just kidding.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Dean Mercado (07:18)
to dive in head first like we talked about doing. And so those plans fell apart very quickly.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (07:25)
interesting when when those things are super important right?
Dean Mercado (07:29)
Yes, very, very, very critical. Especially when you're a young guy, you're starting a new family, and it's like, not a time to play games. So after my wife and I, did some soul searching time. She was still working in a law firm in Manhattan, and that cut us a little bit of financially. And we took about six months off and said, you know what, let's figure this out.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (07:38)
Great.
Yeah.
Dean Mercado (07:57)
And we did and out of that came three different businesses, but most importantly, one of them was Online Marketing Muscle. That's the company that I run to this day today, some 20 plus years later. so yeah, I came out thinking that I knew all this stuff, I was so smart, I got all the education, I got my rear end kicked everywhere, everywhere. Because even though you play as an entrepreneur throughout your life,
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (08:04)
Okay.
Yeah.
I
yeah.
Dean Mercado (08:25)
When push comes to shove and you have to get serious about it and it's now your thing and you've got to pay for a mortgage and the idea of kids coming into the picture and all of that stuff, different ball game. Yes. It becomes very real. Right, right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (08:38)
or you have to pay other people. mean, it is, yeah, it takes, it's very real and very different mindset. So what's been the most rewarding part? First off.
Dean Mercado (08:55)
There are so many aspects of it that I love. you're truly wired as an entrepreneur, which I believe I am at this point in my life especially,
The journey, as you call it, as I call it as well, is everything. It is all about the journey. There are upswings and downswings and turns and twists and I would have it no other way because it gives your life a little bit more meaning, a little more purpose when it's like, I know if my family needs something, I go create it.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (09:08)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Dean Mercado (09:33)
I don't have to sit back and hope somebody gives me permission to go do something. No, it's on me. I just go do it. Right? I just go do it. And that side of being in control of my own destiny and being able to create the space for my family to flourish, it's the most rewarding thing I could ever wish on anybody, anybody willing to take the risk. yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (09:38)
You just give yourself permission, yeah.
Yeah, my god, that's amazing. So, all right, I know I was gonna ask you this. So if you had to sum up your journey in one word, what would it be?
Dean Mercado (10:06)
I'd say gratifying. And I'd say that because I had the corporate America experience and my feet were sleeping. And whatever the reason that was is irrelevant to this point. However, I'm so grateful that I get to do what I do for who I do it with and for every single day. You know, I wake up and I feel great about what I do.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (10:07)
yeah.
Dean Mercado (10:35)
And even after all these years, some people would be like, how could you, you you're full of it. No, I'm not full of it. This is the truth. It really is that way for me that I get to create something new every day. You know, these experiences, phenomenal.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (10:38)
Yeah.
Yeah. I love that word, gratifying. That's a good one. I've asked hundreds, hundreds of entrepreneurs and founders this, and I've never gotten the same answer. So this is just adding to it, just adding to the list. Everybody's journey is different, and everybody has a different experience. And also, it's fun to catch them in their sp
Dean Mercado (10:55)
Thank you.
Yes. Yeah.
Right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (11:19)
where they are in their stage, you know, and at two. it's a...
Dean Mercado (11:21)
Yes, yes, absolutely. Being a little seasoned like I am, I guess I'm at that point in my life where now it's gratifying. Where many a time it was scary as anything, and then there were times where it was phenomenal and just unbelievably lucrative and fun. So again, it's a lot of this. Right, exactly.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (11:27)
Yeah.
Hahaha
It's the ups and the downs, the -hahs and the -shits, right? Okay, so I'm gonna ask you this. you know, we always talk about like, you know, it's great to be an entrepreneur, it's great to own your own business, and then there's people that I call misconceptions or myths about owning your own business. What do you think is the biggest myth out there that you would like to debunk? Like, hey, if you wanna get into this, you might have that mindset.
But you might not have the right mindset to really make it successful. Is there a myth out there?
Dean Mercado (12:21)
I think you're saying it. think the key right there is it's not for everybody. It simply is not. And while I might find it really rewarding and exciting, for others, it's the biggest stressor you could ever take on. Besides children, it's the biggest stressor.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (12:26)
Yeah.
Well, I feel like starting a business is like birthing a child and raising a child and it's yeah.
Dean Mercado (12:43)
It is. It's a baby. You're creating a baby and then you've got to grow it. You've got to grow it over time and it develops into its own animal over time. it's, again, could be very rewarding and it could be scary as anything. So entrepreneurship, in my opinion, is not for everyone and it's certainly not for the meek or the weak. So you really have to understand what you're stepping into.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (13:00)
That's right.
Dean Mercado (13:12)
and be willing to do the things that most people are not willing to do. That's the difference maker.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (13:16)
Right? And have the, and I think have the stamina to be able to stick with it. Yeah. Yeah.
Dean Mercado (13:20)
Yes. yes. Absolutely true. Absolutely true. And it's funny because when we work in corporate America and I have that perspective because I did it for a dozen years. Yes. And sometimes I'll watch people and you'll see them bust their rear end for someone else. But then they go and try and do it for themselves and they don't do that. And it's like why you're working 80 hours a week for that guy over there salaried.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (13:31)
Yeah, I did it for 20 years, 20 plus years. So yeah, it's.
Right?
Dean Mercado (13:48)
Why wouldn't you be willing to put that energy and effort in here for yourself? You know, it's one of those things that I can't explain.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (13:52)
Great.
I'm with you. I've observed the same thing and it is mind boggling to go this, and it might not be you're crushing it like that for 20 years, but for the first several years, like you need to be just in it. what was it?
Dean Mercado (14:06)
Right.
Yes. I would say too, and this will probably come up more and more in our conversation today, this thing we call business doesn't sit still. It's either you, yeah, if you're not evolving, you're dying. If you're not adapting, you're dying. If you're not constantly pivoting, you're dying. Simple as that.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (14:25)
Yeah. No, it's a living, breathing thing.
That's right. And I don't think people, yeah, I don't think people realize that too of like, it's not just about your business, your products, your service, because you're trying to relate to a consumer. There's some audience you're trying to relate to and that audience is ever -changing. But market demands and market fluctuations and just the economy. But then your own people, like the ebb and flow of just the people management. So you have to adapt.
Dean Mercado (14:50)
Bye.
yes.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (15:08)
adapt and pivot and it's a constant, you know, it's a constant grind. was reading something, somebody was like, what entrepreneurs I think have and founders have that, like a trait that is a common trait among us is that grit, that gumption. And somebody was saying it's like, it's passion combined with perseverance is really what grit is, you know.
Dean Mercado (15:10)
Right. Right.
That's... yes.
I think I'm the poster child. have to say, you know, yeah. And much to my wife looking at me all the time, thinking I'm out of my mind, you know, but trusting me enough to let me do what I felt needed to be done, you know, without damaging our relationship. Because my wife is not only my wife, but she's also my business partner. So it's, yeah, we have that dynamic going on. So it's wonderful if you can do it.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (15:50)
Yeah.
yeah, so you have that, the dynamics there.
That's right.
Dean Mercado (16:04)
It's horrible if you can't, you know? Let's just put it that way. You have to have a kind of relationship that can withstand it and the kind of personalities that are flexible enough to deal with it.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (16:09)
That's right.
You gotta have that adaptability, right? All right, so what's been the most, like out of your journey, and maybe it's with this company here, maybe something in the past, but what was your biggest like, shit moment, like your biggest challenge that you had to overcome?
Dean Mercado (16:16)
Yes, absolutely.
There were a lot of them. And I say that in all reality, there are so many. But most of them were stimulated by something that was going on in my personal life. Because as we grow as people, as individuals, and our life changes and becomes more complex, that shift going out of corporate America and thinking that
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (16:34)
Yeah.
I know, I'm like.
okay.
Dean Mercado (17:00)
well, I was crushing it in corporate America for the company I was working for. I could just do it for myself and no, doesn't work that way because the things that you were doing and they don't translate as well because there's so much more you need to do as an entrepreneur. So much more you need to be focused on and think about. And as soon as I started getting my feet underneath me from that transition point, then came kids. And then there was that transition point where, my goodness,
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (17:05)
Yeah.
Great.
Dean Mercado (17:29)
Now all of a sudden I've got to navigate and juggle being all these new roles in my life, you know, being a dad in my, and it was just a whole different set of challenges came, came upon because then you start to realize it can't be all in business. You have to find that work life balance. You have to be there. Cause for me, I know growing up, if I may just digress for a second, dad was always working. He had five boys.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (17:41)
Yeah.
Hey, yeah.
Dean Mercado (17:59)
He had a lot of mouths he had to feed. So dad, if he wasn't working his regular job, he was out doing side jobs with one of his friends at night to make extra bucks to feed us. Hence, not around very much growing up. He was there, but he wasn't there. So when my wife and I got on the subject of kids, we were like, well, my one rule was if we're going to have them, I got to be there.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (18:08)
Yeah.
Right.
You're gonna be there. Yeah.
Dean Mercado (18:26)
I'm not going to allow somebody else to raise my children. I need to be the one raising them. need to create the kind of business that's going to be able to allow me to be that person too. That's right. And so that's the one thing I could say my wife and I did really well is we really created that lifestyle business. We created a business on our terms.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (18:38)
to have that freedom. That's right.
I was gonna say, because that's something that, and I'm sure you do this too, is when people come to advice and ask, I always say that, know what kind of business you wanna start. Is it a lifestyle business where you're doing something because you want the freedom and flexibility? That means there's gonna be some limitations to it, right? Or is it, hey, we're gonna do this for five years because we're gonna exit and.
Dean Mercado (19:03)
Right.
Right?
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (19:16)
and we're gonna let it go and it's not our baby anymore. So we've gotta look at it more methodically and not get so emotional around it. But the fact that you, a lot of people I don't think do that type of soul searching. Usually it comes into like a crash of maybe a stumble or a failure which I don't.
Dean Mercado (19:24)
Yes.
Correct.
Yes.
Yes, absolutely.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (19:45)
look at fail, I think those are just stumbles and pivots and I think we should all look at those as that. They're not failures, they're just, they're lessons that we learn from. But yeah, I think when I've talked to lot of founders when they describe those moments, it's like that's kind of their big, I don't know, aha or maybe a regret of like, man, I wish I would just had those conversations with myself or with my partner.
Dean Mercado (19:53)
No, that's right. That's right.
Yes. yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (20:13)
Even whether it's a spouse or if it was like a business partner of like asking those type of questions before you get into business. Yeah. Yeah. Because our feet get sleep. Our feet.
Dean Mercado (20:22)
Yes, absolutely. A lot of us leap too quickly without putting any real hard thought. Yes, yeah. Put our feet to sleep, right? So yeah, mean, there were lots of trials and tribulations that I've gone through in these decades of doing this. And the one most recent one, if I may, was leaving New York.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (20:37)
Yeah.
Yeah. I was going to say, Mike, so what brought you to the South?
Dean Mercado (20:48)
Right. I was on a search for sanity. New York became an insane asylum. It really had, it was, you know, born and raised in New York. I spent 55 years there before I came down here just last year. And we were looking for somewhere better. You know, our kids were still, we had kids late, so our kids were still teens.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (20:56)
I'm.
Dean Mercado (21:15)
You know, we had to pull them out of the school system, so we became homeschooling parents also. I became a homeschooling dad, another hat I wore for four years because the school system up there got a little crazy. They were more concerned with things that really had nothing to do with educating my child on things they need to develop into good, responsible human beings. And I wasn't having it, neither was my wife. So we had started the homeschooling. We did great with that.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (21:17)
Yeah.
Wow.
Wow.
Yeah.
Dean Mercado (21:44)
and I say it jokingly and half jokingly, but it's not a joke where my daughter in seventh grade couldn't read. And it's like, how did that slip through the cracks? She was on the honor roll. How did that slip through the cracks? You know, when I started homeschooling her, we recognized it immediately and we fixed it. So we took them backwards so that they could take 20 steps forward quickly. And they did, they excelled in homeschool.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (21:55)
Right, right. Like the basics.
Yeah, yeah.
Dean Mercado (22:12)
But then when we came down to South Carolina, we realized, we were like, let's go check out the school system down here. And we did, and we were like, okay, these folks down here, they seem to have their head screwed on right. So, you know, our kids were willing, so they're back in the school system down here, and we're grateful for that too. So when I use the word gratifying before, there's so many levels in which I am grateful, and being able to have a business that
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (22:17)
Great.
Hahaha
Yeah.
Dean Mercado (22:39)
enabled me to be able to leave New York as easily as we did, know, set up shop down here just as easily and all is normal again and better, better, way better. And I urge all the rest of you New Yorkers start looking around, start looking around. Right, exactly, exactly.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (22:52)
That's been.
You don't have to be there. It's good times down in the South. So if you had no fears, like your kids would be okay, your spouse would be okay, like if you had no fears, what would you be doing? Would you be doing the same thing or would you be doing something else? Okay.
Dean Mercado (23:15)
Yeah, I mean as far as work goes, absolutely. You know, I spend most of my day coaching entrepreneurs. So, my days, I love them because every day is completely different because every entrepreneur, even though we're wired somewhat the same, we're all different. We're all different breeds, animals, everything, and it's very, very, very entertaining, rewarding, educational, and just...
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (23:21)
Okay.
we're all different, yeah.
Dean Mercado (23:42)
It keeps everything different and fun for me. So again, having that opportunity to do that, again, I'm so grateful for that.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (23:45)
Yeah.
Okay, so what would our listeners be surprised to learn about you? It's not on your LinkedIn or resume or whatever, but something that would be, that people would find really surprising about you.
Dean Mercado (24:06)
Surprising, I'm not sure. But I mean, there's a lot of aspects about my life that most people don't know. You know, I mean, they probably get the fact that I'm a big time family man. just am, you know, I'm very tight with my children. I am an avid drummer. I've been playing drums for 40 years. Things like that most people don't know. You know, I represented the United States against Japan in baseball as a teenager. So I mean,
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (24:15)
Yeah.
There you go.
Dean Mercado (24:35)
There's a lot of aspects to my life that most people wouldn't know. And they all translate into who the man I am today. And they all play into how I'm able to do what I do today. Being able to pull from all those different experiences, all those different hats that I've worn through the years, that's what empowers and enables us to be who we are and how we show up for others. again, gratifying, grateful, I'm grateful to have had that.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (24:38)
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's right.
Yeah.
Dean Mercado (25:03)
that also enabled me to have a lot of mentors in my life, which are instrumental, completely instrumental in who I am today. And those mentors started very early in my life. Outside of my parents, I'm talking about, my parents were mentors in their own right. But outside of that, having those mentors throughout my entire life has been game changing for me.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (25:20)
Right.
Yeah. So how did you find your mentors?
Dean Mercado (25:33)
It's, you know, most of the time you're bumping into it. And most of the time, if your eyes are truly open, you'll see. And I think as business folks, as entrepreneurs, most times we have blinders on. And like in my early career as an entrepreneur, I thought I knew everything because I had my college degree and my master's degree. I have to know everything by now. No, I didn't know anything. You know, as I said before.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (25:50)
Mm -hmm.
All right.
Right?
Dean Mercado (26:03)
So much so that I realized not many years after that I needed to go back and start getting mentors and get into programs that could really teach me what business was really like, not the fake stuff that they taught me in college, that just didn't translate at all into what we were bumping into. But yeah, a lot of it was just about keeping my eyes open, knowing what I was looking for. And then,
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (26:13)
Right.
Right?
No.
Dean Mercado (26:30)
through our networks, through our peers, being able to bump into those that I felt could help. And through my brashness, being willing to ask for what I want, go after what I want. when I, you know, as I noticed and I do a lot of retrospection, I do a lot of really looking within to see what's going on inside here. And that's really enabled me also to understand what I needed for this next chapter of my journey.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (26:39)
Yeah.
Pray.
Dean Mercado (26:59)
So I've had mentors everywhere from baseball coaches to drum coaches to people I work for in corporate America that gave me guidance and got my hot -headed attack mentality to slow down a little bit so I don't kill everyone in my path. to seeking out the help of people like Mark Victor Hansen and Robert Allen and Laura Langemeyer and T. Harvecker and Jay Abraham amongst many other.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (27:15)
That's right.
Dean Mercado (27:27)
phenomenal people that have played such a pivotal role in grooming me to become who I am today. And I'll also throw all those unsung heroes, those thousand authors that I've read their books. I've read a lot and I've learned a ton. Right, right. And all of those folks, wow, what a world we live in when you think about it that way that we have all of that available to us. But most of us sit back and complain.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (27:32)
Yeah.
Yeah. I know. I'm like, my bookshelf is, you know.
Dean Mercado (27:57)
You know, we complain about everything. Everybody, it's always, always me. Just go to the library. Get a library card. You get the best education you could ever use.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (28:01)
That's right. Yes, right.
Well, and think you brought up a really good point. And I think it's something that we're talking a lot more in the entrepreneurial space, and especially in the founder space of it's really important to do that self -reflection, to become really self -aware. If you want to lead, not just a business, you want to lead people, you want to attract people, you've got to do that self -discovery and really find out your weaknesses, which
Dean Mercado (28:20)
Yes.
Correct.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (28:35)
To me, they're not really, they're your shadows. You've got these power strengths which you need to lean into, but everybody has some kind of shadow. And it's like, do you use those to your best advantage or to express it and show up in the right way when you know what those things are, yeah. And I think you've articulated that well. think that to me is just such a power lesson.
Dean Mercado (28:54)
Fantastic. Well said. Fantastic.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (29:05)
For all of us to kind of take in because you're never going to grow and you're never going to help anybody else grow
Dean Mercado (29:11)
That's right. As that saying goes, your business will only grow to the degree that you do. And after logging well over 10 ,000 hours of coaching others, it is the truth, folks. I'm telling you, I don't only learn from my own experiences, I learn from all those entrepreneurs I've been blessed to be able to work with over the years. And so you never stop growing. I'm 56 right now. I've been working hard on myself the entire time. It doesn't stop.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (29:16)
I am.
Yeah.
That's right.
Right.
Dean Mercado (29:41)
My bookshelves are full with all new books. You can learn from everybody and anything. When you start to feel like, I know that already. You're probably the one that needs to hear that lesson and message the most. So quiet the mind a little bit. Learn a little bit from what your experiences are, but learn from others. And that I credit to my three older brothers. I learned so much from them. Every mistake they made, I got the opportunity to watch them make it.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (29:47)
That's right.
Yeah.
You saw it. That's right. Well, I was the troublemaker in my house. I paved the way for my younger siblings. So, okay, so what's been your fate? What's your go -to? If you had to look at your list, I'm even trying to think of, my goodness, there's been so many that I'm trying to tick through to go, what would I consider my favorite or my top book?
Dean Mercado (30:10)
So I didn't have to.
Ha
Right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (30:37)
Ooh!
Dean Mercado (30:39)
There's been so many through the years. I guess again, it depends on what stage you're in, in your journey.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (30:43)
name and I like
Yeah, mean like Simon Sinek was great from a business, know, really understand your why and then, know, Kotler and marketing. But I looked at Simon Sinek really as like, you also need to know your purpose in life. I mean beyond just your business because your brand and your business brand, they might be aligned, but at some point they might need to take two different arcs. But if you don't know what your own purpose is,
Dean Mercado (31:01)
That's right.
Yes.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (31:15)
You need to do that.
Dean Mercado (31:15)
I know, it's critical. It's critical. And as far as reading books, again, it depends on which stage of my journey I was in. Where, you know, as I was doing a lot of personal development, you know, many years back, Wayne Dyer was very important to me, Tony Robbins was important to me, Harv Eker was important to me. There were a lot of people that were pivotal for me developing a stronger mindset and just a more balanced approach to what I was doing, you know.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (31:22)
where.
Yeah.
yeah.
Yeah.
Dean Mercado (31:45)
but there's been so many out there that have been pivotal for me. mean, anything Jay Abraham, to me, I'm a business strategist by nature, so anything that came out of that guy's brain, I, you know, I remember when I joined this, I joined this program, he sent me a box, no joke, it must have been four feet wide by two feet high, and it was full of DVDs, books, PDFs, I've never seen, and for a junkie with, like me, with self -development.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (31:55)
You're like, we're reading it.
Wow.
Dean Mercado (32:14)
That was like, that was the biggest gift you could have gave me. it was, was tremendous. You know, so, so yeah, I would say to anybody, one, there's no strategy, read everything that guy's ever done or listen to anything he's ever said, you know, but yeah, there's been so many along the path.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (32:16)
I was about to say it like that was probably your Christmas right there.
Yeah.
So what do you think, you know, what's the best advice that you've received from your mentors that you've really taken at the heart? Maybe you've even shared with your entrepreneur folks that you coach. Like what's your, like that biggest like key advice?
Dean Mercado (32:44)
Ooh, again, so many. And it's probably because I'm so deep in the journey at this point. Some that I remember that were very pivotal for me. I remember a time where I was told I was running three businesses at the time, running them all horribly, by the way. One of them was online marketing muscle. bottom line, my coach, was saying to me, she said,
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (32:47)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Dean Mercado (33:14)
one thing she said was, all right, here's what I want you to do. I want you to take two of the businesses and I want you to put them on the shelf for a year. And what we're gonna do is we're gonna take that one that you feel the best about and we're gonna turn that into what you expect and want it to be. And then after a year, if you want any of the two back, you can have one of them. And it was like, first off, the New York comes out at me and says, who are you to tell me what, son of a, you know?
hey, I was paying her a lot of money and she was where I wanted to go. So it behooved me to listen and I did and the company I kept was online marketing muscle. And a year later, it's like looking back, hey, which one do you want now? And it was like, none of them. I don't know what I was thinking. Yeah, I don't know what I was thinking. And there were many gems like that. mean, another big gem was never being afraid to trade up your team.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (33:47)
Right?
You're like, I'm loving this.
Ooh, talk about that.
Dean Mercado (34:12)
You know, and that was huge for me because it was, I'm a people person. I'm a loyal person. You know, when I create relationships, they usually are deep and we work and play hard together. And to have that, to get that clarity that I kicked and screamed and fought against that, hey, what got you here won't get you there. You're saying you want this. Your accountant can't get you there.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (34:25)
Yeah.
Dean Mercado (34:39)
You're this guy can't get you there. This gal can't get you there. It's time to trade up. And it was like, no, but I love that person. Well, then go have a beer with them. But tomorrow, trade them up. And that was really, really pivotal for me. That it was like, number one, it gave me the permission. not that you need it, but you need it.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (34:44)
Yeah.
Yeah.
They need to go.
Yeah.
You need it. Yeah.
Dean Mercado (35:07)
having somebody to say to you, you know what? Yeah, that's what we do. That's what everybody does. It's okay to do it. Go ahead. You want somebody who's already knows how to get where you want to go. You know what I mean? As opposed to somebody who you're dragging along with you, which is what I was doing for years, years I was doing that and it was like painful. And you know, that permission was huge and there were numerous others like that, but that one really stood out, you know,
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (35:18)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mm. Eh.
Yeah.
Dean Mercado (35:37)
Partially because, like I said, I fought it the way I fought it. Only to lose that battle and I'm grateful I did now.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (35:41)
Yeah.
That's right. Yeah, someone I was struggling with that several years ago of like, man, I feel like I'm just dragging people like I'm pulling and who is it? Steve Harvey did the best kind of analogy of, know, you're going to have to like trade up your team or, know, you have to realize not everybody can be on your cart at the same time. And so he talked about like the like a horse and like almost like a horse. He was you're the you're the horse.
Dean Mercado (35:54)
Right?
Right? Right?
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (36:14)
And you're pulling this cart, the wagon wheel, uphill. And he said, everybody on that wagon should be actually out of the cart and pushing you up the hill. And he was like, if you find people that are in the cart, and he goes, those people need to go because they're making it harder for everybody else. And then he goes, or you might have people that are in the cart, or they're just not pushing.
Dean Mercado (36:15)
Right.
Right.
That's right. Absolutely.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (36:43)
they're dragging their feet or whatever they're like, they need to go. Because, know, like starting a business doing things, are literally that horse pulling that cart and everybody along uphill needs to be, everybody working on so that it's not that weight, you know, carrying you. And I was like, that's exactly what I feel. Like this is, like with such a powerful, you know, metaphor of that's the pain I feel.
Dean Mercado (37:02)
That's right.
It's brilliant. I mean, that's just brilliant.
Yes, absolutely. And it happens and shows up so easily where all of a sudden we don't we turn around and we realize I'm carrying all of these people in this cart. What am I doing? You know, this. Yes. And they stand around and they watch you, you know, they watch you play superhero, making everything happen. And it's, you know, it's a hard lesson to learn. And it was a painful one for me.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (37:13)
It's time to clean house.
Right, and nobody's helping and nobody is.
That's right. It is, yeah, because it's painful of financial pain, but also relationship pain of like, these are still good people. They're still decent. It just wasn't a good fit.
Dean Mercado (37:43)
you know.
Yes.
Yes.
That's right.
That's right, until I was being told that I was being stingy by holding on to them. That I was being, I was not serving them well by keeping them in places and positions that they should not be in any longer. They need to find their journey. What's next in their path? So instead of me being stingy and dragging them along with me, I needed to bless and release them and let them go. Let them go find what they're meant to go do.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (38:00)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's right. That's right. It's. Yeah.
Dean Mercado (38:24)
And that was, you know, that's where the big -has came in. You know, when you start to allow yourself that kind of growth. Not easy, not easy.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (38:33)
That's right. It is not easy. It's hard to sometimes be candid with people, especially around their path and having them so certain. You can only show so much and have those conversations, but at end of the day, it's to be, I think, a mentor of mine has always said, being candid is actually being very kind. yeah.
Dean Mercado (38:38)
Yes.
It is. It is. Absolutely. I firmly agree with that.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (39:00)
I love our conversation. Okay, so here's a great question. I can't wait to hear this because I think you, I can't ask this on everybody, but you're more self -aware. So is there something that you really like about yourself that you wish other people recognized more?
Dean Mercado (39:08)
you
Ooh.
Woo, that's a tough one. And I say that on a lot of levels. The biggest reason I would say that is because I'm very transparent. Being born and raised in New York, I'm very direct. I say what I want to say, I say what needs to be said, and I do it with love. As far as what people would know about me,
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (39:23)
I'm.
Mm -hmm.
Yeah.
Dean Mercado (39:49)
I don't know, I don't know because I put it all out there. I show no fear when it comes to that because that's right, it's like hey, you're either gonna love me or you're gonna hate me. I'm very polarizing and I know that and I'm okay with that. I'm grateful that a lot of people fall on the love side but there are a few that will fall on the hate side because they may see my directness, my brashness as being
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (39:52)
You're like, what you see is what you get, people.
Yeah, yeah.
Dean Mercado (40:18)
braggadocious or whatever where it's not it's never about that
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (40:21)
Right? think if I had to assess just from our, I don't know, 30 minute conversation here, I would say that people don't see you're as generous because of maybe that.
Dean Mercado (40:33)
you might be right, you might be right. there's, I mean, I'm giving all day long. I do what I do because it fits my core values, my personal core values. My number one core value is to love. That's why I coach, because it's me expressing love every day, all day, by giving of myself the best way I know how, you know, because I'm able to give to them.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (40:34)
directness, yeah.
Yeah.
Dean Mercado (41:01)
ways to shortcut their journey to get closer to what it is they want for themselves, their families, their team, and all of that as well. I didn't start out a coach.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (41:13)
How did you get into coaching? Just stumble into it or?
Dean Mercado (41:17)
I yeah, I basically did. I was delivering hardcore as a consultant in the early days of this. And my clients started asking me for more. Instead of just giving us the fish, Dean, can you teach us how to fish? And it was one of those kind of things. And going through all the pain I went through in the early days as an entrepreneur, it got to the point where I was like, if I could just prevent.
A handful of other entrepreneurs from dealing with all the crap that I dealt with in the early days, not make all of the mistakes that someone necessary, some weren't. And you can learn as much just by being told about it. So then I started coaching because of that. I was like, okay, I need to help some people. I need to give people a better shot at this than what I feel I had. I had to do so much deprogramming of myself.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (41:47)
Yeah.
All right.
Dean Mercado (42:12)
because of college, because of the way things were back in those days, growing up, know, born in the 60s, but growing up in the 70s and 80s, the way things were, we were programmed a certain way and it wasn't this way. And so after all that hard work on myself, I felt it was my calling. I was kind of drawn to it. I had to help others navigate this. Yeah. So yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (42:13)
Yeah.
Yeah.
That purpose driven, yeah.
Dean Mercado (42:41)
So that's probably that kind of sums it up, you know, and then I started with a buddy of mine. He had a company too, and we started co -coaching each other to practice how you do it. Then you start realizing, you know what? I'm kind of meant to do this. This is me. It's right up my alley. It comes naturally, you know, so yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (42:50)
that's right. We got some here. Yeah.
Yeah, I love it. if we met a year from now for cocktails or coffee or whatever, what would we be celebrating?
Dean Mercado (43:07)
Yeah.
Another great question. Well, like always in my business, I'm always evolving it. I'm always adapting it. You being in the marketing industry for a long time as well, you understand how things have changed. And it's been drastic how things have changed. The lack of respect for the concept of marketing, the clutter, the garbage that we see out there right now.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (43:25)
Yeah.
my god
That's right.
Dean Mercado (43:36)
So we're at that point right now with online marketing muscle where we're evolving to the next level of who we need to be. We're dumping a lot of our current offerings and we're replacing them with offerings that we feel suit us better at this point where we are, where our clients are. We are releasing, we're about to release in the upcoming month or two our new group coaching program called Clone the Owner Academy.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (43:42)
Hmm. Yeah.
Dean Mercado (44:06)
which is gonna be about educating those entrepreneurs, getting them really tooled up to conquer this thing we call small business a little easier. So by that time we will have signed on our thousandth member by that time to that program and they'll be rocking and rolling in that program and helping them explode their businesses. And then on the tail end of that for my own gratification, I like to close my own chapters.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (44:09)
Yeah.
Mm -hmm.
my God.
Dean Mercado (44:35)
with a book. So the mind stretch, which is that book behind me that went bestseller about a dozen years ago, that was closing that chapter of my life. You know, and then I moved on to my newer concept, which is now called Cloney owner, which is our newest angle at things where we're trying to help people realize you need to get leverage on yourself and your business in order to grow it and scale it. It's that simple. It's not meant to be a one person sport. Doesn't work that way.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (45:00)
Yeah, that's right.
Dean Mercado (45:05)
You've got to figure out how to get leverage and that's what that concept is about. That's what this academy we're releasing is about. That's what the new book will be about. So we'll be celebrating probably its release. Yeah, yeah. I high aspirations. There's no playing down here. Yes, absolutely.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (45:14)
Okay. Well, we're gonna be celebrating a lot then next year. That'll be fun. This is manifestation right here. If you say it, and you've gotta say it in terms of it's already happened. It's in motion. It's not a wish, it's not a want, it is what it is. It's gonna happen.
Dean Mercado (45:31)
That's right. That's right. That's right.
It'll happen because it's definitely because it's part of my journey and allowing me to close that chapter and allowing me to leave that legacy behind to give people something that can help them in their life the way I feel I've been mentored and helped. So it would be very selfish of me to just bottle it and keep it and not share it. So I don't claim to have been the mastermind or creator of anything.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (45:41)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Ha, I love it.
Dean Mercado (46:04)
We're all standing on the shoulders of some giant somewhere. That's right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (46:06)
We're just curating it and then repurposing it. Yeah, I think you and I are lot alike of, I'm a sponge. I love to read and absorb, but if I can't share it and use it as part of an education with other people, it's like, it's the worst thing. And it drives me crazy when other people are they're hoarders of information. It's like, stop, that's, let's
Dean Mercado (46:11)
That's right.
That's right. absolutely.
Yes, yes!
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (46:35)
That's not good. That like drives me crazy. And I love the fact that you totally, yeah, on bright marketing side, that's what we've seen in the last, what, Chandler, the last half dozen years, the hatred of marketing. But mostly it's because there's so much junk, just garbage, garbage. And I think it's also, because you and I came from corporate.
Dean Mercado (46:39)
I totally get that.
off.
That's right. That's right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (47:03)
I came from a big agency, but we were trained appropriately on what the difference is in marketing and branding and advertising. And I feel like over the last 10, 15 years, didn't, people didn't get the same discipline, so now we've got marketing as mud. And so nobody knows what it is. People think it's either a gimmick or, anybody can do it.
Dean Mercado (47:10)
Yes.
Yes.
Absolutely.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (47:31)
that there's no method to it and it's like, my gosh, the methods and the thinking have not changed since like the 80s and 90s. It's our tools have gotten better in the advertising sense of like our tools have gotten better in buying and planning and all that. But the thinking around how to frame your brand, how to frame your marketing strategy and your go -to marketing, and then how to plan for media has not changed.
Dean Mercado (47:31)
YES!
I know. Yes.
That's right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (48:01)
That's my soapbox right there. I'm on a speaking circuit of just that. Because I feel like that is why marketing as our industry is in crisis.
Dean Mercado (48:07)
Yes, and it needs to be said.
Yes, it is. It is in crisis mode when you got most entrepreneurs out there believing that I could just hire a sub $10 an hour VA and they'll do all my marketing for me. And I learned that lesson the hard way even. I remember many years ago hiring a VA to do some, to help us out a little bit with social media, early days of social media. And then I took my eye off the ball and that was the big mistake.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (48:23)
$30 hour. Right. Right.
Dean Mercado (48:44)
was instead of being the one driving it, leading it, making sure the brand voice was heard right, I took my eye off it because there were other things that needed my attention. Only to put my eye back on it and say, my, are you freaking kidding me? What did we do here? You know, we just gave our brand voice over.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (49:00)
You
Dean Mercado (49:08)
to a $10 an hour person who's never run anything in their life, let alone has never really done social media before, and we're letting them dictate who we are and how we should show up. Wow, big mistake.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (49:20)
Right? Or now we're seeing agencies being replaced by having a VA just use AI to do
Dean Mercado (49:32)
Absolutely. And even that, mean, AI is powerful. I love it, I use it, but you've got to know how to use it. Now being a coach for 20 years, yeah. I mean, as a coach for 20 years, I've learned how to prompt better, how to ask better questions and you get better responses. So working with AI for me, it's pretty natural because I've really honed in how to ask for exactly what I want. Most people have not.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (49:40)
You gotta know how, you need to have a filter. You need to have that filter.
Great.
Dean Mercado (50:02)
and that's why they don't get what they want. First off, they don't know what they want. They're not clear. As a coach, that's one big aha right there. Most people don't know what they want. And if you ask them, that is the one question that I ask clients that stumps most of them. I've had them cry when I ask that question. I've had them laugh with nervous laughter. I've had them sit there and ponder it for an hour. The gamut.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (50:02)
Right.
Sorry, it's the brand. They don't know, yeah.
Dean Mercado (50:29)
They have a hard time answering that. And the key is until you know what you want, you're not going to get it. You're to get something, but it might not be what you're thinking. It's like being in a dinghy in the middle of the ocean, letting the waves just have its way with you, shove you around. That's what it's like. So it's insanity when you think about it. It really is.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (50:46)
That's right. That's right.
It really is.
Dean Mercado (50:54)
And you know, for all of you out there and listening to the little rants about the marketing before just to tie that back in. Please rethink your strategy around that. You know, think about amongst the sea of chaos out there to use your terminology. How are you going to differentiate? How are you going to stand out? How are you going to make sure that that your voice amongst all the garbage, the chaos, the clutter that's out there?
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (51:00)
Yeah.
Dean Mercado (51:24)
is going to be seen, willingly seen. How are you going to ensure that people want to hear your voice? They don't want to hear AI again spitting out somebody else's voice, you know?
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (51:25)
Right, right.
Right, that's right.
That's right. Being authentic, but also you're never going to be relevant and connect with your audience. One, if you don't know who you are and why you're different. And then we see the garbage on the other end of like, if people have their brand, then they throw it to junk of like, inexperienced media people. I call them media people. They're not even media people. They're like,
Dean Mercado (51:41)
That's right.
That's right.
That's right. Very true.
That's right. I agree.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (52:03)
They're assistants, they're juniors, and they're just going wherever their trends are. And I'm like, why are you there? Why are you showing up there? That is not who is your audience. That's not where they consume.
Dean Mercado (52:17)
Yes.
Yes, and that's, know, it comes down to two and some of the reasons why we dumped some of the offerings we used to offer because we felt the integrity in some of those product lines, not from us, but across the industry. The integrity was no longer there. So we used to do a lot of SEO years ago, but that industry and those serving it lost integrity many, many years ago. And, you know,
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (52:35)
That's right.
Yeah.
Dean Mercado (52:47)
They'll say, yeah, we're gonna get your rankings up, but yeah, they're ranking you for stuff that you don't wanna be ranked for, you don't care about, and it's not in front of your target audience.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (52:54)
That's right. It's just, no, and we've seen that. We do a lot on the bright marketing side. It's amazing how, like when you said there's just junk, we're taking over contracts of, and these are significant size like SEO companies that literally are ripping off small businesses. mean, it is, to me it's like, it's just shocking and it hurts my heart. You know, when you go,
How did you not know this was, you're paying a lot of money and it's junk. And you talk to CEOs and presidents of these organizations and they're like, I don't know, I get a report every month and I'm like, they're just regurgitating your Google Analytics in a prettier little format, but they're not doing anything for you. They're just cashing your check and so, and they're like, well what should I be doing? So we have to go through and re -educate.
Dean Mercado (53:28)
Right? You're right.
Right, right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (53:50)
this is the different, this is what SEO is. And this is what PPC is, and this just like basic terminology, but I'm doing it at like a CEO level, which is just crazy to me, of like, you've got 200 employees, or you've got 2 ,000 employees. Why are you even in these conversations? I get it, they've been burned, they feel like.
Dean Mercado (54:05)
Right. Right, right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (54:17)
They don't get marketing. They feel like it's been a waste of time, money, and energy. And it's because they haven't had the right people. They haven't had the right partner that will walk with them. And the trust is gone. And so we're re -educating. And it just pains me, because I love the space. I've been doing it for 30 years. But I have never seen the pendulum has swung so far to this.
Dean Mercado (54:29)
Yes, the trust is gone. And I think you said it. Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (54:46)
crisis mode of junkery.
Dean Mercado (54:50)
Yeah, mean, saying that I've been saying for 20, 25 years is marketing paves the way for an easier sale. It's really that simple. And with no marketing, sales becomes more difficult. It becomes painful. It is not the redheaded stepchild of sales. If you do marketing right, sales is easy. It's really easy.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (54:58)
yeah.
That's right.
That's right. And it's not overhead. So if you are thinking, you're going to be disappointed every single time. If you think, well, I have to hire this people and, you know, it's just overhead. I'm like, no, it's revenue. It's a revenue driver. That's how it should be seen.
Dean Mercado (55:15)
That's right.
Right.
And as a coach, I've seen through the years, it is always the first thing that gets cut. When things get tight, they cut the marketing budget. And I'm like, what are you doing? You know, that's what's keeping us alive right now. That's what's keeping the food flowing in. What are you doing? Why would you do that?
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (55:39)
Yes, and it's...
What? That's right.
That's right. And if you look at all blue chip brands and businesses that scaled and have grown, they did the opposite.
Dean Mercado (56:02)
That's right. So when we had the pandemic, we saw that in a big way, right? We saw everybody ratchet it down and it's like, no, now is when everybody's silent. Ratchet up your voice. Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (56:06)
That's right.
Retch it up, that's right. We had several clients that we pivoted, went from doing more traditional, digital and did, kind of built up their DTC business that they didn't really have. It was 10 % of their business, ended up being 80 % and it recovered them because they were projecting to be like 30 % in the whole. And they ended up being 20 % in the black. So it was, you know, just, it's like, just do it right.
Dean Mercado (56:23)
Right.
Right?
Hmm.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (56:41)
We're not spending more money. We were just re -shifting the dollars in a much smarter way. Yeah.
Dean Mercado (56:45)
And that's a mindset shift that has to happen right there. The mindset shift is going from it being an expense to it being an investment. And as a business owner, I'm always, I don't care how much something costs me. I care how much it makes me. End the story. It's really that simple. So if, if the next marketing campaign costs me $50 ,000 to do it, that's okay. If it makes me $500 ,000, I'll do that all day long.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (56:52)
Yeah. That's right.
Right? Right?
Dean Mercado (57:16)
You know, I liken it to, I tell people all the time and I use this analogy, I'll say, it's like if I put you in front of a soda machine of some sort, right? But this one has to do with money. And every time you put a dollar bill into that machine, it spits out three. Would you ever leave the front of that machine? Right, think about it. I put in a dollar, it gives me three, I'm gonna stay in there all day. So then why would you not do that with your business? Why would you not do that with your marketing?
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (57:32)
Right?
That's right. Right. That's right. And if you look at, mean, we could go on. But yeah, it's like I've been, it's just amazing like the math I have to run for owner, like small business owners of, you know, they're like, well, that's gonna cost me $50 a lead. You know, after we're like, yeah, but you're missing the, we're gonna get so many impressions, like so many awareness and consideration. I was like, I'm just showing you the math of based on.
Dean Mercado (57:51)
Yes. yes.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (58:07)
all the data that exists out there, I can project down to how many form fills and how many phone calls this media mix is gonna help you. And they're like, that's $50, that seems, I can't afford that. And I'm like, but if we get this many and you close 20%, let's just, you you don't even know what your close rate is, but let's just take an average in your industry. Let's hope it's 20 % because if it's,
Dean Mercado (58:17)
Right.
Right.
Right.
Right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (58:37)
Because if it's, because I'm sure you've heard this, are like, no, it's 80%. And it's like, no, it's not. Because your salespeople are only putting in what they want you to see. It's probably really like 20 or 30%. Or we get it and it's like, crap, you're like 8%. You've got other issues in your business that if you're at an 8 % close rate, I think we need to turn off advertising at the moment. We need to reinvest your time, money, and energy.
Dean Mercado (58:42)
Yes. yes. Yeah. Right.
Yes.
Right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (59:06)
into a sales enablement program and maybe you need to clear some house here because your processes suck or your messages suck. Something is not working here. The advertising is working but you're like this isn't working and I don't think people look at marketing and advertising like we do but it's amazing how a lot of small businesses and what I think is small like we're working with small businesses that have
Dean Mercado (59:08)
That's right.
That's right. That's right. That's right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (59:33)
They're not small businesses, they're mid -size. They're 2 ,000 employees. They're North American with 20, 30 locations across the country. But they're still in this small mindset of... The business grew because the category grew. you probably see that, well, I didn't need marketing. I would just hire salespeople.
Dean Mercado (59:46)
Yes, absolutely. It's like the business grew despite them.
Yes, all the time.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (1:00:02)
But now I've hit a plateau and it's like, yeah, you just grew because there was nobody else there. Now there's other people there. You've got the point where you're paying more in sales bodies. it's like, look at it from a holistic framework and your entire budget. yeah, so we have to reteach, like you said. We have to get people to kind of.
Dean Mercado (1:00:20)
Exactly, exactly.
Absolutely.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (1:00:30)
break out of that mindset and go, now let's just, you know. That's like, I know. It's like, and I'm the agency that's like, we can be that party, but we have to do it too of getting them. But it's it's disheartening because it wasn't like that 15 years ago and 20 years ago in the agency space.
Dean Mercado (1:00:35)
I'm smiling ear to ear here because you're singing to the choir. hear this stuff every day and it's just like, you know, I know. Exactly. Right.
Yes.
Yes.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (1:00:59)
And now it's just, but the last five years have been really hard because of that mindset.
Dean Mercado (1:01:06)
Yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, there are a lot of small businesses out there and part of what I see too is people being enabled to be a small business owner even though they have no business being a small business owner. And, you know, that's what I'll do respect to all of you out there listening to this right now. It's business, thing we call business is simple but it's not easy.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (1:01:20)
You
Yeah.
Now, and.
Dean Mercado (1:01:33)
And there are a lot out there that really need to go back to the drawing board and learn. The entrepreneur of 20 years ago might have been a little bit more tooled up here than the entrepreneur of today who just thinks that they're gonna just light up AI. I'm just gonna use that and I'm gonna make $20 million a year. Yeah, you might get lucky to catch a trend like the YouTubers did. They caught a trend and great, but that's not the norm.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (1:01:46)
Yeah.
Yeah, that is.
Alright.
No, that's like the one to two, we call it the 3 % unicorns. Like that's not the rest of us 97 percenters out here.
Dean Mercado (1:02:06)
Yeah, absolutely.
That's right. That's right. And that's, you know, it's unfortunate, but it's fortunate because I, I think that even just speaking for myself, the, the joy has been all in the journey, you know, and now that I'm at this stage in my life, I see that clearer now than ever, you know, where I had my sights set on crazy things when I was younger, but then you hit those things and you're like, eh, what's next? You know, what else? You know,
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (1:02:22)
Mm -hmm.
Yeah.
Dean Mercado (1:02:39)
Until you understand that that journey and going through everything you go through, it's what part of what makes you who you are and how you show up for others and how others respond to you. You know, and it's so empowering and powerful at the same time. And if I can inspire any entrepreneur out there with that little statement, go for it. Figure it out for yourself, you know, and don't get caught up in the bright, shiny object syndrome.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (1:03:02)
Yeah.
Dean Mercado (1:03:09)
Especially with things like AI coming on the scene right now. Now AI is a game changer. I liken it to even more powerful than how the internet was when that came in. Internet changed the game, you know? one quick thing for you. Do you know what I was laughed at 20 years ago when I started online marketing muscle? why are you gonna start an online marketing company? It's such a fad. It's not gonna be internet, it's not gonna be here. I got laughed at.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (1:03:12)
right?
yeah, yeah.
straight.
Yeah.
Really?
my, my goodness.
Dean Mercado (1:03:37)
people made fun of me for, I thought you were smart. Don't you have a master's degree? What's wrong with you? You know, are you on drugs? Do you need, you you need therapy? No, I saw where the things were going, you know, but I try to marry real old school principles and that's why I studied with guys like Jay Abraham to get those old school principles and bring it into the modern day with the modern tool, you know, and then you have a real good result.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (1:03:42)
Yeah.
Yeah, you did.
What? Yeah.
That's right, that's right.
Dean Mercado (1:04:07)
You know?
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (1:04:08)
It is, yeah, I'm gonna date myself too. I was, so you'll appreciate this, I was one of the first digital media buyers in the country. And went to, if you remember this conference, it was held maybe like three years, maybe four, I don't even think, but it started in like 98, 99, but it was Internet World in Chicago. Like.
Dean Mercado (1:04:16)
Nice! Nice!
Right?
Yes. my goodness.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (1:04:33)
And I would attend those and it was like we were I think the first time it was only like 10 or 15 of us that were actually buying media like on the weather chant, you know the weather comm and HGTV had just come out or ESPN comm everyone was getting kind of their the the ad inventory on their websites and You know, I think the only Ad networks that existed were 24 7 and double -click
Dean Mercado (1:04:42)
Right.
Right, my goodness.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (1:05:03)
And I sat on, like for three years on a committee that ended up being the Internet Advertising Bureau for setting the standards. Because it was a wild, wild west of like, okay, what you got? Where can we go? But yeah, was like for our clients, was, you know, and I worked at a, not at one of the Madison Avenue, I was like a small regional agency, but we had some significant clients, but we were.
Dean Mercado (1:05:11)
Wow.
It was. It was insanity.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (1:05:30)
The big agencies weren't buying online. They were still very heavy buying. 90 % of their stuff on the up -fronts, of their media buys, digital wasn't included. So it was like for us to get big, big recognition in these brand alignments, we went digital first, a lot of our clients. But yeah, it was like when I think back to those days, the art of planning and the science of planning really hasn't changed. It's just the tools have gotten
Dean Mercado (1:05:37)
Right, right, right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (1:06:01)
like to be able to buy programmatically and to have the supply side and the demand side all kind of work in this incredible real -time engine. But it's still just the data is still there and the planning is that you just got to know what you're looking for. yeah.
Dean Mercado (1:06:10)
Yes, yes.
there, ding ding ding, I think you just hit it on the nose right there, because there is an art and a science to it. Now, when you were first doing this, going back a while, it was an art and a science, and you had to know a lot in order to be able to navigate that. Now, somewhat the tools have made us lazy, where the tools are giving us some of that.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (1:06:27)
That's right.
I was using spreadsheets. No. you. my gosh.
Right, people don't understand then, they don't understand terms, they don't understand like why is this happening? And so then what does this result in? Which is I think then the phrase of like the vanity metrics because it's easy to pull and it's like well that's junk, that's not telling you anything. So yeah, yeah, but it's interesting, like people would go to our agency and go why are you sending your media?
Dean Mercado (1:06:46)
That's right.
Right.
Yes, exactly.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (1:07:08)
Director to internet world and stuff because our agency grew like Exponentially because we hit you know we really hit the dot -com, but these were big big like Brands that were trying to develop I mean this phrase didn't even exist then but really trying to create their own DTC versus being relying on the retailers you know and But yeah, that was but that agency survived the dot -com because it was
Dean Mercado (1:07:21)
Right.
Yeah.
Right, right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (1:07:38)
It wasn't 100 % online. was real manufacturers. But yeah, that was like, but I would never take that experience. I had somebody, like a junior person asked me, who really wanted to get into media, like how do I do Facebook ads better? How do you know which is good and bad? like, my gosh, how am I gonna cram 30 years of media planning?
Dean Mercado (1:07:44)
Yes. Yeah.
Right, exactly.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (1:08:08)
you know, how to analyze. I kind of did it in a shortcut and they were like, I just, you mean there's like more than just Facebook ad tactics in digital? I mean, the fact that people don't even realize that there's a thousand different tactics just in digital. And they just think it's like, you don't know what you don't know.
Dean Mercado (1:08:25)
Right, exactly, exactly. Well, that's one of those things where you don't know what you don't know. And the problem with a lot of entrepreneurs is we think we know more than we do. And that is where a lot of the painful lessons come from. Absolutely. The eyes have to be open, the ears have to be open. that's why I'll always say to people, everybody needs a coach.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (1:08:38)
Yeah, you gotta be open. You gotta be open.
Dean Mercado (1:08:51)
Everybody should be working with somebody who's been there, done that, whatever it is that you want to achieve. There's somebody who's been there and done that already and tying that into agencies, you know, why do you hire an agency for you hire that agency because they've been there and done that. It saves us the time of having to try and figure it all out. And that was a big hard lesson for me was the fact that I didn't have to figure it all out myself.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (1:09:00)
you
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (1:09:18)
I just love how our lives, our pasts have kind of intertwined of, you know, I come from the agency side, you came from corporate, but the whole online, you know, being at the beginning, what was the, what value, I mean, would you give up that value of having that experience in your journey?
Dean Mercado (1:09:41)
Never. To me, was amazing to watch those two worlds collide, them come together. being part of that was so instrumental and so powerful to be able to bridge that gap between the offline world and the online world. And there were very few agencies back then that could bridge that.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (1:10:08)
All right.
Dean Mercado (1:10:08)
and we saw a lot of agencies flat out go away. They became extinct quickly because they couldn't adapt. And then came a new breed of agencies that were thinking too far out there. they were, you know, we saw a lot with the dot com burst and all of that stuff. We saw problems there too, when somebody can bring, as I've heard you say, the art and the science and carry that art and science from
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (1:10:20)
Right.
Yeah.
Dean Mercado (1:10:39)
what they knew from the offline world and bring that into this new space. How do I navigate this now? Well, you navigate it by still using the same principles, the same values, the same everything, right? There's no shortcut to success there. There really isn't and you have to be willing to, yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (1:10:41)
Mm -hmm.
Right.
That's right.
Right? No. You still have to think. You have to do the heavy. I caught the brain sweat. You've got to do it.
Dean Mercado (1:11:02)
That's right. the bad part about it is there's a lot of people out there, a lot of charlatans telling you, well, you don't need that. don't need that. Yeah, just do that. Yeah. Yeah. And where's their business right now? How are they doing?
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (1:11:09)
Mm -hmm. Right. just do SEO, and it's like, your problem isn't SEO. Like, your problem is something else.
Right, right.
Dean Mercado (1:11:23)
You know what I mean? Misery loves company. And as a coach, it's something I say all the time to people because they're always telling me about, well, my cousin's nephew said that I need to do this. Really? Does your cousin's nephew run a multi -million dollar business? Cause that's what you're trying to do here. You know, what's going on with that? So it is about trying to bridge that gap, bring that reality in and help them understand that we do need to remember those values and those strengths of what made
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (1:11:28)
That's like good.
Great.
Dean Mercado (1:11:52)
a great agency, a great agency, if you can bring that in to your small business and bring those principles, those values, those ideas, that creativity, more power to you. And just to say something I said earlier, it doesn't matter how much you spend, it matters how much it makes you. And you could waste a lot of money trying to do it all on your own, trying to figure it out. I did that. It doesn't work very well. No, it doesn't.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (1:12:08)
That's right. That's right.
Yeah, it doesn't work.
Dean Mercado (1:12:18)
I know, you know, when you mention and you ask things like, what would I do differently? You know, that's one thing I would do differently. I would not try and do it all myself like I did in the early days. You know, I don't regret it because it allowed me to know as much as I know now. Yes.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (1:12:28)
Yeah.
It was a lesson. Well, it paved a way for you to then become a coach. Yeah. Yeah.
Dean Mercado (1:12:41)
That's right. But that's decades of pain. And for most of you who don't want to be a coach, you don't go through the pain. That's right. That's right. Know what you want, and then go find the best person money could afford, plus a little bit more. And get that person to do it for you. And they'll help you get wherever you're trying to go much further, much quicker. And that's
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (1:12:48)
You just want to grow the business, then outsource.
Dean Mercado (1:13:09)
you know, what we want ultimately in our businesses to get where we want to go for the quicker. We want a cool journey, but we don't want that much pain. At least I hope you don't.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (1:13:18)
It's like, no, that's right. That's how we come in. We're like, where's your friction? Where's the rub? And it's like, let's figure out where that pain point is. Because a lot of people, a lot of businesses come to us and what they identify as their friction ends up not being. It's actually indicative of something completely different. And I think this is where, and you would probably agree, if you're a small business or a
Dean Mercado (1:13:23)
Yes, yeah, love it.
Yes.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (1:13:47)
trying to be a blue chip, nobody has unlimited funds, has unlimited resources, nobody has unlimited energy. So having somebody that, as I said, for our team to come in and figure out where that friction is, we're the outsider, but we know what we're looking for. We know how to uncover those things to go.
Dean Mercado (1:13:54)
Correct.
correct.
That's right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (1:14:15)
is you don't have an advertising problem, you've got a branding problem. Or you don't have a branding problem, you have a marketing organization problem. Like you've got some shit you gotta fix. Don't spend this money, because you've gotta reallocate it to either rehire your team, you gotta do training, or we've gotta rebuild kind of the infrastructure, your foundational elements, so that when you are ready to go and put yourself out there, now you're gonna get the leads.
Dean Mercado (1:14:17)
Yes. That's right.
That's right. That's right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (1:14:44)
and you're gonna close them faster and you're gonna scale easier versus pushing that wagon wheel uphill.
Dean Mercado (1:14:48)
That's right.
And that's the power of a trained eye. With the experience that you have with all these years, you've got a trained eye at this point. And you know what you're looking for. And most people who don't do this every day and haven't done it for the last couple of decades, they don't have that eye. I don't care how cool and smart they think they are. That was a hard lesson I learned. Don't make that mistake, folks. Look for that person who's best suited to help you get what you want to get.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (1:14:54)
Yeah. Yeah.
That's right.
No.
Yeah.
That's right.
Dean Mercado (1:15:19)
Right? Because ultimately it ends up being cheaper, a hell of a lot cheaper than the lessons and the pain you're gonna learn. Yeah, that's right. That's right. Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (1:15:23)
and the pain. That's what was like. The pain. It's so painful. my goodness. we're out of time. I love this conference. Like, we could go on. We could go on and on, on marketing especially. But I love this. I enjoyed the conference. I've loved getting to know you. Hopefully, since I, you know, now I know you're in my backyard, we'll have to go and treat ourselves somewhere.
Dean Mercado (1:15:37)
Clearly, yes.
Likewise.
Definitely. Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (1:15:51)
But before we get, so how do you want people to connect with you? Where can they get ahold of you? Like what's all your stuff?
Dean Mercado (1:16:00)
best place would be to go to my own website Dean Mercado dot com. From there you'll find everything. You could find my agency, you can find the things that we do, you can find all our social channels and all that stuff. That's the easiest. It's Dean Mercado dot com. You know and check it out. Look at it. Check out the book. The book, even though it's 12 years ago, don't get me wrong. That thing is as true today as it was 12 years ago. You know, so check it out.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (1:16:21)
Yeah.
That's right. That's right.
We'll put all the links when we launch this episode. And so thank you to all of our listeners for hanging with us and joining us today. This podcast episode will be available on all your podcast platforms, just your favorite. So subscribe to Hello Chaos and give us a like, a comment, or a share. Help us grow a more connected entrepreneurial community.
Dean Mercado (1:16:30)
Good stuff.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (1:16:54)
Hello, CAS is one of the many resources brought to you by OrangeWIP. That is OrangeWIP WIP for Work in Progress. OrangeWIP is a multimedia company dedicated to serving founders and entrepreneurs in affiliate cities. We're in three South Carolina cities today, looking to expand in other cities across the US. Every city needs an OrangeWIP Just an email to join our community. It is a one -stop content hub just for founders in an innovative digital zine experience.
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Hello Chaos (1:17:49)
you