In this episode of Hello Chaos, host Jennifer "JJ" Sutton chats with Suzannah Raff, founder and CEO of Cleo and Coco, a clean personal care brand. Suzannah shares how a personal need sparked her journey, the challenges of creating safe, effective products, and the role of packaging in connecting with customers. From lessons learned to balancing work and life, this episode is packed with inspiration and insights for entrepreneurs. Here are some key takeaways that will help you navigate your own entrepreneurial journey.
Key Takeaways
✨🤝 Authenticity Drives Connection
Suzannah’s mission to create clean, effective personal care products without synthetic fragrances or harmful chemicals reflects her deeply held values. Her journey shows how aligning your work with your beliefs not only builds a brand but fosters a loyal community around it.
💪🏼🌱 Resilience is Essential
From navigating COVID-related supply chain issues to overcoming manufacturing mishaps, Suzannah’s journey highlights the importance of perseverance. Her advice? “You just have to keep going.” Resilience turns challenges into stepping stones for success.
🌍💬 The Power of Community
Suzannah credits her accelerator program and mentorship in the CPG space as key to her growth. Surrounding yourself with a supportive network of experienced voices can make all the difference in achieving entrepreneurial goals.
Timestamps
02:28 The Journey of Clio and Coco
05:26 The Impact of Synthetic Fragrances
10:47 Challenges in the Personal Care Industry
16:45 Creative Discoveries and Brand Aesthetics
20:04 Customer Connections and Meaningful Wins
22:30 Aha Moments and Future Aspirations
26:56 Navigating the Post-Pandemic Retail Landscape
28:33 Personal Routines for Stress Management
31:10 Strategic Business Changes and Lessons Learned
37:23 The Value of Mentorship and Community
40:08 Future Aspirations and Celebrations
41:15 Personal Insights and Values
45:06 Resilience and Celebrating Small Wins
Connect with Suzannah:
Website: https://cleoandcoco.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/suzannah-raff-06061027/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cleoandcoconatural/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/suzannah_raff
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (00:01)
Welcome to Hello Chaos, the weekly podcast exploring the messy and chaotic lives and minds of founders and entrepreneurs and innovators. Today on our show, we've got our guest, Susanna Raff, the founder and CEO of Clio and Coco. Welcome, Susanna. Welcome to the chaos. Well, thank you.
Suzannah (00:10)
you
Thanks.
Very familiar with the chaos. Thank you so much for having me.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (00:29)
Well, just start us out. Get everybody level set on who you are and how did you get started with Cleo and Coco?
Suzannah (00:38)
So I am the founder CEO of Cleo and Coco. We are a clean personal care brand. I launched the brand four or five years ago.
Before that, I had a master's in business and did lot of business consulting, especially in the tech world. And I had really this vision. I had really driven by a personal need that really started many, many years before I launched my brand. And that was when I was first pregnant, my mother said to me, put aluminum under your arms. And then like most pregnant women,
I was starting to read ingredients and look at what I was putting onto my body and I became much more health conscious and I didn't want to use synthetic fragrance either. And I just couldn't find any deodorant that actually worked and that didn't contain synthetic fragrance. And then I noticed that there were just a lot of personal care brands that everything just still contains synthetic fragrance and I didn't want to use it. And so over the years, the idea started to percolate.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (01:40)
Yeah.
Suzannah (01:48)
And five years ago, I jumped in. I jumped in. said, I am ready. There is a tremendous need for really, for to really clean up the personal care aisle. Aluminum free was a great first step, but we need to just take this so much further and make things work and, truly, truly clean, higher level of clean. So yeah, five years in.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (02:04)
Yeah.
I
Suzannah (02:15)
Five years into the chaos.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (02:16)
So you went into formulation and all that of the development of these, like a clean, when you say no, did you start with deodorants or did you start with fragrances? I'm fascinated with the, okay.
Suzannah (02:30)
So we start, we are deodorants. We're really, it's a lot of personal care. So we have stick deodorant, powder deodorant, spray deodorant, we have soaps, and we do something very different. Our fragrances are incredible, but they're not synthetic fragrance. They're really using the natural butters and oils.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (02:36)
Okay.
You are.
You are totally speaking to me. I've been trying to lecture my teenage daughters. I have a 24-year-old, but I have a 13-year-old daughter who buys whatever. And the smell is just overwhelming for me because I have tried almost every clean, no-aluminum. It's hard to find something that does work or that's not, that's long-lasting and keeps that. Yeah.
Suzannah (02:59)
Thank
Yes, it's a struggle and it's still a struggle for many people until they find Cleo and Coco. So it was a struggle for me and very, very sensitive to synthetic scents. I always say it's kind of like when somebody eats processed food and sugar substitutes all the time, they don't notice it. if you go on like a Whole30,
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (03:22)
Yeah.
Right.
Suzannah (03:51)
and you start to eat really clean and you cut out all the processed foods and you cut out all of the fake sugars and all of that, the minute your tongue tastes that stevia, it's really, really strong. You notice it right away and it's off. You don't like it. So it's the same thing when you eliminate the synthetic fragrance from your routine and you're not used to smelling it. When you smell it, it's...
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (04:08)
Right?
it is like, it knocks me back.
Suzannah (04:23)
Yeah, so the synthetic fragrances contain thousands and thousands and thousands of potentially toxic chemicals. They're known to be hormone disruptors, some of they could contain neurotoxins, carcinogens, and they're in every single one of our personal care products still today. Yet people are really, and I also have, I started
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (04:33)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Suzannah (04:50)
thinking about all of this when I was pregnant and today I have teenagers and they all need and use deodorant and I can't even imagine giving them synthetics, synthetic fragrance, of those chemicals today. So they only wear Cleo and Coco and all of their friends and all of their school.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (04:53)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, I don't think people, well I would say the trend is getting larger or I guess more widespread. I'll tell you, I don't think people realize how much, what they ingest or what they put on their body, how it does influence hormones. So I'll tell you a story, so this will be new for Chandler too, I don't think he's heard all my stories. So my daughter who's 24 today, when she,
Suzannah (05:36)
I'm going turn it off.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (05:43)
was five years old, when she was five, you we went to like the, you know, their five year old checkup, getting ready for kindergarten, all that. she, we were, whatever the tests were, she was like, I think your daughter's probably gonna, she's on track to start her period in like 12 to 18 months.
Suzannah (05:44)
Happy birthday!
in five years'
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (06:13)
It like jarred me and I was like, what? And I said, that means you're talking about when she is six or seven years old? What is happening? And it almost like startled our own pediatrician who then looked at this girl and she was like, God, you're right. Like why? So she went down a deep dive for me and sent me all these articles.
in like the Journal of Health and Pediatrics and all this and had you know showed the the trends of Menstrual cycles of you know I grew up in the 70s. It was average was like you know Was it 13 years old was the average and it stayed that same through the 90s? And then they started seeing that the late 90s 2000 generation
it had gone from like an average of 12 to 13 to average start of a menstrual cycle of eight years old. And it was because of all the hormones injected in our chicken, our dairy. And this was before organic. Anything was really readily available. she said, you know, so she called us back in and she goes, how much dairy and poultry products do you guys consume on a weekly? I'm like,
Suzannah (07:18)
you
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (07:38)
God, we eat yogurt every day. We probably go through two gallons of milk a week between us and our kids. We probably eat chicken and we eat eggs. I was like, we're doing that two, three, four times a week. And she said, do me a favor. know it's, she goes, I just want to test something. She said, for an entire month. I'm sorry, and I missed the.
What sparked the the conversation of what was happening with with Sophia my daughter she was smelling like Cooked onions out of her skin. That's what the I was like I bathe her by the time you know it's like within hours she smells of cooked onions like a Bo of an adult male sweating in a gym
Suzannah (08:20)
Yep.
Yes.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (08:37)
that has never used deodorant. mean, it was this really pungent odor. And that's why she was like, well, that's a sign she's going to start her period. That's what the alarm was. So she was like, do me a favor. I know it's going to be probably expensive, but go find only consume and buy anything organic, buy anything that says no hormones, no preserves, like anything injection. At that time, think
a gallon of organic milk, like at the grocery store, was $10. I mean, it was, to get like a package of no hormone chicken, you know, was like 12, I mean, was just so, it wasn't accessible, but we did it. We did it an entire month, and also we, you know, we told her not to get the milk at school. Literally within days, days, we could tell the difference. Not even a month, we could tell, you know, so,
At that time, was almost 20 years ago, we went totally organic in our household, trying to find farms that we could get less expensive dairy products for us. But yeah, we were like, no processed, we're going to do no hormone. Because it really kind of jolted us to go, my, like this is, we're ingesting this. And then,
Suzannah (09:57)
you
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (10:02)
I'm like you, I'm like, we tried everything of not just what we put in our bodies, but what we put on our bodies. I just, I'm so sensitive now to the taste, the smells. I can tell when I, or my kids have had any, when they've gone to sleepovers or camps or whatever and they're not eating the same type of foods, they have an odor when they come back home. And so, yeah.
Totally with you.
Suzannah (10:34)
That's an amazing story. You're a very good doctor. So we get emails from customers all the time. My 11-year-old, my nine-year-old has this really, really bad odor and we wash her, we shower. What's going on? It's all hormones and it's hormones coming from the hormones that we are ingesting. And then there's also hormones.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (10:37)
Yeah.
That's right.
Suzannah (11:02)
Well, there's hormone disruptors in the phthalates and parabens and fragrance in all of our products. So, yes. wow, that's an amazing story because it's very, very true.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (11:04)
Right.
Yeah, it is so true. And I don't think people realize that. And especially now with the explosion of Instagram, especially around the beauty, the beauty sector of, and sheen and everything is like super cheap. so I got a battle, not just what they hear from their front, but it's what they hear from TikTok and all the...
Suzannah (11:43)
Definitely. Well, so where your 13 year old is Jen, I have a Jen generation alpha as well. And the beauty products that they like she my little 13 14 year old wants to get up an hour early so that she can straighten her hair and put on all of her beauty products.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (11:49)
Yeah.
That's right, yep.
Suzannah (12:05)
Where do you get the money to buy all these products? Where do they just appear? know, every babysitting job means another trip to Ulta. It's that generation is really, really. so, you know, I do, do, you know, teach her read ingredients and we have to be very careful. So she gets a lot of all the clean products because I get.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (12:09)
I know.
That's right. That's right.
Yeah.
Suzannah (12:31)
I go to shows, have samples, I know the brands. but it's definitely, you there's still a long way to go with our beauty and personal care. And so, you know, we're taking the first step with Clio and Coco, and we hope that, you know, in the next five to 10 years, Clio and Coco and our really authentically clean formulas without any hormone disrupting ingredients will just like take over the category.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (12:40)
Yeah.
Yeah, we're going to manifest that. So, mean, consumer packaged goods, especially, you know, with formulation, I mean, it is a challenge to get into a space that is so competitive and just really difficult. Like I said, you know, all that formulation, then the find the supply chain, your partners. And, you know, we've heard some horror stories from other founders who
Suzannah (13:03)
Yes.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (13:31)
you know, they've overcome, but it's like, did you have any of like those big challenges that you had to face or has it been a pretty smooth ride so far for you?
Suzannah (13:41)
There is nothing smooth. There is nothing smooth about anything that I do, ever. I think that there are small little winds and some big winds along the way and like divine miracles.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (13:49)
Ha ha!
What's been your big, so what's been your biggest like, shit, like, what have I done? Is this the right thing? Or man, shit, that person or that company really just set me back.
Suzannah (14:07)
Thank
I have so many. mean, and I think they're very, very normal. had a manufacturer who, it was during COVID. So, you know, the world really changed when I launched my brand. And so I think normally I would have flown out and met the manufacturers and because nobody was going anywhere, everything was, so I had a manufacturer really, really court me. And they, worked with them probably six, 12 months.
They developed a beautiful formula for me. Their prices were significantly better. They were courting me so that I would leave my current manufacturer. And because they treated me so well and did such a fantastic job, I decided to make a big PO with them, having never visited their facility. And our first run was perfect. The second run was an absolute disaster. And they damaged tens of thousands
of like I had to throw out tens of thousands of my components and just really, They were a chapstick manufacturer hoping to start to make deodorants. And I guess I hadn't done enough remote research or due diligence. I feel like if I would have met them in person, I would have caught that right away. So they didn't have really the right equipment.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (15:20)
They didn't have the right quality controls.
Suzannah (15:41)
They were very, very nice about it. They paid for all the damage, but you can't really pay for running out of inventory. Set your business back, you know, significantly. So it took, it took a lot of time to recover from that because I spent another six to 12 months really vetting, manufacturers, visiting them in person this time, you know, normal life. But I think that.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (15:48)
Right. Yeah.
Yeah.
Suzannah (16:10)
This is, you know, these are normal, you know, just these things happen. think that I, I mean, I hope that's going to be the only time we ever have this, but you you're always told have, you know, backup manufacturers if something goes wrong and, know, build a whole network, you know, the supply chain. These things can happen. You just have to have checks and balances.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (16:17)
Yeah.
Right.
That's right. Have that little pool of relationships ready to go. So what have you discovered about yourself through your journey?
Suzannah (16:39)
Yes, yeah.
So think I discovered that I'm a lot more creative than I realized. And I really love the creative process of formulating and putting together like really clean and effective products. I was always a scent person. I just, love the textures in the sense. And so I think that kind of that...
passion and that creativity comes through in the quality of the products that we produce. And I was never, I never thought of myself as like a visual designer or I was always very academic. I did a master's in business and I never really looked at colors or I was a scent person and I was like more of an academic person. And this
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (17:41)
Right.
Suzannah (17:44)
category, because I kind of like, we're in the mastige, but it's kind of like almost luxury personal care. So it's borders on beauty. And beauty is all about the packaging and the aesthetics. So, you know, we put a lot, a lot into our packaging and our design and all of our marketing. Yes, yes. Because, know,
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (17:53)
Yeah.
That's right.
It's beautiful, yeah. It's very elegant, yeah. And the colors, I like the muted palette. I mean, it's a nice palette. Yeah.
Suzannah (18:14)
Thank you. Yeah. So we put, because I really felt that the ingredients are of such high quality, the packaging should reflect that, that it's not just your same old drugstore deodorant that just took out aluminum. It's just completely redesigned and reformulated the whole category.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (18:20)
Absolutely.
That's right.
Yeah, think, yeah, I'm so glad that you said it, because you know, I own a marketing agency, I've been a brand strategist. You that's one thing that you obviously get it and looked at it of, this is, it's not just the ingredients, it's the whole, it's every touch point, how they perceive, but that is something that I really, I have to work hard to convince other founders, especially in the consumer packaged goods of,
I can't tell you how much packaging affects your brand and how you're going to stand out from the shelf. Also your distribution of, you know what, if you're high end, want to be, know, Walgreens might not be your, you know, the shelf you want to be on unless you're positioned with the other high end brands that they are carrying, you know what I mean? And, but yeah, the fact that you totally get it, that it is packaging.
and the brand, the colors, it all, really does make a difference. absolutely. So what's been the most rewarding part?
Suzannah (19:41)
Yes.
You know, it's really, I think it's, there's, there's definitely a lot of long-awaited, but any of the small tiny wins the first time you see a product on shelf in store. You know, in the very beginning, the thought that like somebody is actually using every day, a product that I created. when we get emails from customers, especially when I get emails from, you know, somebody going undergoing chemo.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (20:13)
Yeah.
Suzannah (20:21)
or recovering from cancer and saying, you know, thank you so much. It's so hard to find a deodorant that works, that doesn't have synthetic fragrance, that's not irritating my skin. You know, those are the wins that say, okay, this is why I'm doing what I'm doing. This is worth all the chaos.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (20:24)
That's right.
That's right. Yeah. You so funny, I meant to also say, you you talked about you didn't think you were as creative. One of my favorite quotes, I think it's from Einstein, but he says that that creativity is intelligence, just having fun. So I think it's your yeah, because because I'm one of those like I'm an I'm more of a number analyst and but yet I appreciate great creative.
Suzannah (21:01)
I that.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (21:11)
and design and brands and all that. And it is, it's like when you're working on that, it's just showing. Anytime you're showing that spark of creativity or the appreciation of others around you that's bringing that, it's just intelligence, having a lot of fun, yeah.
Suzannah (21:28)
is so much fun. That is definitely, you know, it's definitely enjoy and have a lot of fun. When we get through the struggles of, you know, supply chain and inventory and quality and, and all of that. It's, it's really, that's, it's really fun to be to create it out of it.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (21:41)
Yeah.
and they see it on the shelves and then, yeah. So what do you think has been like the most, like an aha moment in your journey since you started the business of like an insight or something that you're like, this was a breakthrough. I know I'm gonna do something different because of this or this business, this brand is gonna make it. I'm on the right path.
Do you have any ah-has like that?
Suzannah (22:17)
sure. So, I mean, early on, I got this big yellow, can't, this is, QVC is the big find. So as soon as I launched, I went to this open call for QVC, not really knowing anything about, I didn't know what I was doing. I just, I thought, I didn't really know that much about QVC or CPG. I was just, you know, I just,
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (22:36)
Right.
You're like, I got this idea. I gotta have, need to do this, yeah.
Suzannah (22:49)
and I got the big tickets and they put me on, and know, six months later I was there on prime time, the big find with their talk with Sean Killinger, who was like their top, top host. And they put me on air and we sold out in like seven minutes. And so that was, that was, that was just, and this was 2019, I think right before COVID hit.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (23:03)
Yeah.
Wow.
Suzannah (23:18)
And so that was like, wow, you know, this is proof of product. This is proof of demand. We created the category in QVC and I spent the next couple of years really just, it allowed us, was just proof of learning all the marketing and building the supply chain and, you know, growing super, super fast. And since then, you know, we've really switched our strategy and we're now,
you know, very omni-channel direct to consumer retails. We have a very big national retail launch coming up in 2025. So that's another big win. It is a little too early to reveal, if they watch, watch, definitely watch a lot of beautiful big things happening, which is really.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (24:00)
Is it too early to reveal? Okay. Well, we'll be watching.
Suzannah (24:12)
really important because like, you know, we go back to your little seven year old daughter, it's really important for people's overall health to have access to basic, basic personal care products that are really authentically clean and effective. We never ever wanted to compromise on, like you said, all the different touch points. It should be, you know, the experience of smelling. I open it and I smell it and it's wow.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (24:34)
Yeah.
Suzannah (24:41)
It really smells good. You feel good that you're doing something better for your body. You get the textures and it's effective because why use it if it's not going to work?
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (24:52)
That's right, that's right. Were there any myths or misconceptions you had about starting your own business that you're like, well, that was a lie? Did you run into any of those?
Suzannah (25:07)
about lies, but I definitely thought that I would. So, you know, the world changed as soon as I launched, right? So D2C was in a very different position. It was very easy to build a direct to consumer brand and acquire a customer and retail shut down and everything flipped. think there was, there was also, you know, you were building a brand not based on
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (25:23)
That's right.
Suzannah (25:36)
profit, but on revenue. And so since I launched today, all of that has changed, right? It's very expensive to acquire customer DTC, is still figuring itself out with all of the acquisition, new acquisition costs. so retail has definitely opened back up, but it took some time and investors have, it's been a very, very, very conservative investor market. So
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (25:57)
Yeah.
Suzannah (26:06)
You know, it wasn't necessarily a myth. was just that had I launched in 2016, it would have been a very different, faster growth.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (26:15)
Right. You would have had, it would have been more of a retail path forward with the DTC probably. Because we saw that with lot of our, you know, with our clients on the marketing agency side where most of the like 80 % of their business was coming from either host, like mix of wholesale and retail. And 20 % was DTC. After 2020 it flipped. And you know, they went from 15.
to 20 % DTC to it almost saving their business in 2020 and 2021. And now you're right. It's like now it's trying to get back level setting of, but we're just seeing some of that stuff come through. I think just this year of getting back to that. Now it's almost like 50 50 for a lot of the brands. They've, you know, retail hasn't overtaken where they, where they were. I don't know if you, if you felt that too, is it, you know, is it like split?
for you or...
Suzannah (27:13)
So it's very, you know, this is where kind of my business school training, it's definitely very, I use all like kind of everything that I've learned. the idea of not putting all your eggs in one basket, so diversified, so omni-channel, right? So we're D to C, we're retail, we have many different channels of reaching the customer. And it makes a lot of sense for something like CPG and especially personal care.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (27:40)
Right, absolutely.
Suzannah (27:42)
There's many places that you might want to buy your deodorant to your personal care products. And so we want to be available there. So and it also just make make sense from a business sense.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (27:53)
Yeah, absolutely. How do you deal with the stress and challenges? Do you have any of your own disciplines or routines that you've adopted to go, OK, I got to stay focused. We got a goal. We've got to, but big things happen. Big stressors happen. And you've got kids, too. So how do you deal with all that?
Suzannah (28:21)
So I try to work out every morning before I start my day. I find that really just calms me and energizes me for the day. So I really give that self-care time to myself. I eat really clean. if I were to have carbs for breakfast, I would be dragging. So I think, know, small lifestyle.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (28:43)
That's right.
Suzannah (28:50)
choices like that.
I don't know, I think I lost you. I'm not sure. Did we lose the connection? there's a lot of fuzz. Can you hear me?
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (29:04)
Sorry. Yeah, we can hear you. can hear you. Can you hear me? I knocked my mic. Yeah. We're going to have to go out and come back in. She's stay there. Stay right there. We got to go out, come back in, and then I'll just re-ask that question. Hold it. Hold on.
Suzannah (29:10)
I hear a little bit of fuzzing though.
Okay.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (29:45)
And we're back. Am I turning on? I don't know if I...
Okay. Can you hear me? I can. Yeah. All right. Do we, we have to do another countdown. no, we're still going. we are still going. Okay. so wherever you want to pick up, I'll just say. All right. We're going to chink. we were talking about like your disciplines, your routines to stay, de-stressed.
Suzannah (30:17)
So I make sure to try to work out 40 minutes an hour every morning before I start my day. That really just calms me and energizes me for the day. If I haven't worked out, I definitely feel more stressed. Also just eating clean. Really, you know, the right foods can give you energy and the wrong foods can kind of drain you like we've been discussing. I do have one thing.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (30:39)
That's right.
Yeah.
Suzannah (30:46)
we keep, I shut down for 25 hours every week completely, which has been, which is really, don't even, I don't know how people live without it. I don't know how I live without it. So from sundown Friday, so we have Friday night dinner and, and, which we really, really look forward to. So there's no phones, you know, a nice bottle of wine and sitting and talking with my kids and my, and my family for, you know,
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (30:52)
wow.
Eh.
Suzannah (31:15)
for hours and a lot of sleep. can sleep 12 hours. It's so, we need it. And it's very hard, know, come Friday afternoon and I'm in the thick of it and it's intense and I've got intense things going on. And I just, you shut it down. It'll be there when I, you know, it'll be there Sunday morning. It'll be there Saturday night when I turn everything back on. But I'm...
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (31:23)
We need it, yeah.
Yeah.
That's right. That's right.
Suzannah (31:43)
I'm rested and calmer and I've seen like, you know, when you sleep on something, you know, it's not as overwhelming and you handle things better. So that definitely helps.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (31:55)
That's right. Our mind needs that reset, especially if big decisions. it's, yes, as a CEO, you need to be able to make, be nimble and agile and answer and make decisions very quickly. But I also think there's things that if it affects the brand, the customer experience, anything that changes, I think you just need, you need,
hours or sometimes just that overnight of let me shut down and let me just have it re-present so that you do things with more you know focus and clarity versus it just being a I'm in the moment and if I make this decision it'll affect stuff. What do you so if you could change two things about your business today like right off the bat what two things would you
Suzannah (32:40)
Yes, yes.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (32:54)
change.
Suzannah (32:58)
could change two things about my business right off the bat. Wow. What would I change? I mean, I guess having a co-founder would have, mean, has its pros and cons. Maybe if I would have brought in more of senior team earlier that.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (33:14)
Yeah.
Suzannah (33:23)
would that maybe that could have, you know, I guess it's maybe the way I allocated resources in the beginning. I think you learn, you learn what's important to spend on and what's not important. So maybe that's, you know, and I've also a lot of those changes I've started to make in the last couple of years. So
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (33:29)
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Suzannah (33:49)
It's very funny, I never, for the first couple of years, I didn't really work with a budget, which I'm really ashamed and shocked to say. I had a bookkeeper from the very, very beginning. And I had kind of in my head, I had an average budget, but I brought in a fractional finance company and a new bookkeeper. And the first thing we did was really look at
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (34:02)
Right.
Right.
Suzannah (34:19)
all of the expenses and start to budget and say, know, cap marketing here, cap operations here, fulfillment has to be X percent of sales. So I wish I had done that sooner.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (34:27)
Great.
Yeah. So if you had to make the change for that, just bringing in even more senior, so you can focus on the vision, the growth, the product development, let somebody else kind of deal with the operations. Yeah. I think we hear that most. I don't know if it has to be a co-founder, but definitely like a chief business officer, chief operating officer. People always ask,
Suzannah (34:51)
Yes.
Right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (35:05)
I do a lot of coaching in the startup space and they're like, when will I know? need to hire, and who is gonna be my first hire? And I was like, well, one, just depends on where you find what you love to do. As the owner of the company, the CEO, there's a lot, we all come at it from whatever our gifts are. I said, you'll learn really quickly of things that you might find that you, what you thought you loved to do.
you now hate and the things that you thought you'd hate to do you might love or vice versa. Like you got in it for the passion of the formulation and it's really tapping into a creative passion because it's speaking to your soul, right? But sometimes that now dealing with all like, my God, I gotta deal with this and this from an operations, it sucks that energy.
away so it's like you know that you need to tap somebody for that and that's where I we see that a lot in the in the startup space of that first major hire is going to be probably that number two it's going to be an operations person that really is kind of watching and managing the business so you can grow and and develop what the brand and the culture and
and the growth strategies and not in the weeds of actually operating the business. And it's really hard to find that person. Really hard to find.
Suzannah (36:35)
And it's also just.
I've had very junior people helping and it's taken a lot on me and so right so we're really now putting in you know it's just gotten too big to responsibly manage in this way that bigger bigger more senior people have to come in and take over.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (36:43)
Yeah.
Yeah, and just from lessons learned that we've heard from, I can tell you some lessons learned I've had, but also from other founders, make sure if you're putting that person in that kind of like key role, they're never gonna love your business the way you do, but maybe make sure that they're in some kind of an incentivized program. Their salary is also not just this big, big salary.
because they're gonna treat it like they're just an employee, not somebody that kind of has skin in it. So make sure it is an incentive base, because I can tell you, I've made that mistake of what I, and they weren't junior people either. So these were people that were 30 years experienced that, but because I didn't structure their compensation plan to,
have more skin in it, I got burned. And I've heard that, I've heard my story retold back to me from some major startups of, mean, one of our clients, he's in the software tech space, bioscience, and his board recommended these two high-experienced, very expensive, that came from Coca-Cola.
and they came from another big, big brand, CPG, they were there for a year, showed there was no value, no growth, no nothing. They just took basically a very expensive salary, but the business didn't move forward at all. So don't be deceived. I know you're dealing with junior people that do kinda, you gotta spend a lot of time with, but you're gonna have to.
also be just be leery of even people that come with very experience because it's not an easy road to find that that person.
Suzannah (39:07)
So we actually just, I just started, I just got into an accelerator program. Really fantastic. So if I could have done that a few years ago, it's interesting though, because the timing though is perfect because I have the most incredible support. I have 40 or 50 mentors from CPG who have done this many, many, many times who I now can call up and say,
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (39:13)
Fantastic.
Suzannah (39:36)
I'm stuck on this, I have a problem with this. And they're just gathering around me to make sure that this big retail launch is as successful as possible. That the guidance, the support system and access now to resources is invaluable, it's so priceless. Being a part of this community has just been the greatest, greatest gift.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (39:39)
That's right.
It's invaluable. It's so priceless. Yeah.
Yes, I've been involved in a couple of accelerators and I can't, like I'm so glad you said that because I cannot shout that enough, especially for, you know, women in business and female founders. It's hard for us to find a community sometimes, but these accelerators to get, I was in the Goldman Sachs 10,000 small business. You know, I had 40 or 50 coaches that were surrounding and.
That was in 2020. My cohort still meets up once a month online. We are still connected and each other's cheerleaders. So they'll stay with you. mean, these are people that will be in your community through the lifetime of your business. Yeah.
Suzannah (40:53)
And they're skin in the game because now they and their investors they've invested, they really invested and they have a small percentage of your business. yes, absolutely. I don't think they do it as much for, you they definitely have it. They have that incentive, but they're just the kindest human beings just supporting and giving and giving.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (41:09)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
that's fantastic. So if we met a year from now, Susanna, what would we be celebrating? One year from now. So next November, 2025, what would be, we'd be sitting down having cocktails somewhere. What would we be doing? Cheering too.
Suzannah (41:32)
we're going to be accelerating the rapid growth. The second big retail launch, the third big retail launch, fact that we are taking over the category and giving consumers products that they deserve.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (41:40)
very.
Yeah, the first in category, I know you're not the only one, but the first that's effective would be, because right now, I don't think there's anything out there. That seems to work. What do you think our listeners and watchers, viewers, what do you think they'd be most surprised to learn about you? That's not on your...
Suzannah (42:01)
you
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (42:19)
It's not on your LinkedIn, it's not on your website, but just something interesting that people would be surprised to find out about you.
Suzannah (42:27)
my gosh.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (42:30)
Ha ha.
Suzannah (42:30)
It's not on that, right? What would they be most surprised? Well, maybe the shutting down for 24 hours. You know, that I'm like observant, spiritual, religious person. Yeah, that's not, you know, it's definitely not common in the world that I'm in, that I'm doing. There's a lot of shows over the weekends.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (42:41)
Yeah.
and diligent on that, yeah.
Yeah.
Suzannah (42:59)
that I have to do a lot of juggling, because I won't, I mean, I won't be at that show, you know, so, so maybe that's surprising. That, you know, somebody can, you can, you can do, you can be true to your values and what, and you can set boundaries and still do, and still do everything.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (43:10)
That's
That's right, that's right. What, I was gonna ask another, if you had to sum up your entrepreneurial journey in just one word, your founder journey, what would that word be?
Suzannah (43:38)
I'd say, well, I'm going to give it two words. It's really a creative challenge, a creative outlet.
It's been a really, it's a fun ride. It's stressful, but you really learn a lot about yourself, your strengths.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (43:51)
Yeah.
Yeah. It's like founder, founder journey is, is, huge self discovery. We become way more aware of, of ourselves.
Suzannah (44:13)
Definitely.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (44:15)
So speaking of that, and I love that answer, the creative outlet, creative challenge, we have asked hundreds, of founders that, and we have not had a repeat. And this is yet another, it just shows we all have our own, even though we have similar challenges, ah-hahs with the lessons that we learn, come much more introspective.
But we all have a different word that describes our journey and our path. Isn't that amazing?
Suzannah (44:48)
That is amazing. I'd love to see a list of some of those words.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (44:51)
Yeah, are coming up the year end. We usually kind of highlight all the words that have come up over the course of the year, so we might have to do that again. Do you like the top words? Okay, so, and you kind of alluded to it. I'm just curious of, so what's a trait or a characteristic or something that you really like about yourself?
Suzannah (44:59)
can't wait to see them. Yes.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (45:20)
that you wish other people would recognize more.
Suzannah (45:29)
That's it.
I guess it's going to go back to what would that I want people to recognize more.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (45:46)
I know it's like what what do I love about myself that I wish other people we always have these like shadows and these you know
Suzannah (45:55)
think that people underestimate me a lot.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (45:58)
yeah. So you're more of a formidable leader that they don't recognize.
Suzannah (46:00)
I.
Yes, I think people underestimate my abilities and I think all my life, think the reason why I went to business school was like because nobody took me so seriously and I said no, I'm a serious person and I'm capable and so and I still think that it takes a little bit of time for people to recognize that.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (46:20)
Yeah.
That's right. That's right. What is the best advice that you have received from, I you have all these mentors and advisors. What's the best advice that you've received that you want to share with other founders that are listening?
Suzannah (46:50)
You just have to keep going.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (46:54)
Just do it.
Suzannah (46:55)
that resilience. think it's that resilience. It's, it's, it's so much more challenging than you could ever expect. So but it's, you just have to, you know, add up all those little wins, right? It's the resilience. Keep going.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (47:04)
Yeah.
That's right. And I think you kind of said it too. I don't think, you know, you need to make sure that you celebrate even the smallest of wins and recognize that. I don't think we do that enough. And the fact that I love that you were like, yeah, we were on the shelf. We've got, you know, we made it here. We did it. Like all those little wins need to be recognized and cheered and celebrated among the team that got you there.
And I just, you know, I know I don't do it enough, but I try to. It's like, I need to remember or I to give people shout outs. Because it's so important. The littlest can keep you going.
Suzannah (47:59)
You do have to remember that because we have to keep looking forward and making sure that the next step is perfect and the next step is successful. And so like each challenge gets bigger and bigger, you have to realize, look where we came from. We overcame the challenges that are behind us and we're gonna keep. You can do it.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (48:21)
We just keep going. We gotta keep going. well this is, and just keep doing it. Well, love, you know, thank you, Susanna, for sharing your story, and I love all the tip, especially the do an accelerator and shut down. Like, give that, like, and stay true to that, to that discipline, to your values. You can make that.
Suzannah (48:32)
you
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (48:50)
make that happen, and I love that. Where can people connect with you, find your product, purchase your product, tell us how we can help you?
Suzannah (48:59)
So you can find us at clioandcoco.com. That's the easiest way. And we have social channels at clioandcoconatural on Instagram and TikTok. You can buy us everywhere, Amazon direct to consumer. We're on target.com, thrive market, really wherever you want to buy digitally.
you can find us and soon you'll be finding us when you walk into some very major retail doors. then, and if you want to connect with me personally, also, you know, you could find my team can find, you know, can connect you through Instagram or LinkedIn, of course. I'm Susanna Raff at LinkedIn and Cleo and Coco on LinkedIn and love to hear from customers, love to hear from co-founders, people interested in business and
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (49:33)
I love it.
Yeah.
Suzannah (49:55)
You know, one thing that I look forward to that I'm gaining from the accelerator is giving back, right? To be able to give back to other entrepreneurs, to other female founders, to, so yeah. Yes, building that community and support system and supporting each other.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (50:09)
So important, yeah, we gotta build our community. That's right.
And now before yeah, that's right before we go I forgot to ask the most important question because it's and I can't believe I spaced it It happens the name. Where did the name come? Are these your kids names or like where does this you know, Cleo and Coco? I love the names
Suzannah (50:23)
you
Thank you. So it is not my kid's name. I really spent a lot of time trying to figure out if I could incorporate my kid's name or a way to play with my kid's names. And of course, years later in the middle of the night, you I could have named it after my kids this way. And all the hundreds of names that I thought of since then, but it was meant to be Cleo and Coco. So really Cleopatra was our inspiration because she was so known for like just her really
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (50:46)
You
Suzannah (51:01)
beauty regimen and she used charcoal and we use charcoal and she's a strong powerful woman. So Cleopatra for Cleo and then Cocoa for kind of coconut oil and again natural ingredients and it tested really well. Everybody loved the name so it works.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (51:18)
Nice. Yeah, I love it. That's why I was like, I wonder if it's her kids. But I love the fact that it's Cleopatra and then cocoa for coconut, all the ingredients. So that's amazing. But thank you for hanging out with us today. And I love the conversation. And for everyone listening or watching us, thank you for joining us. This podcast will be available on all the pods. So.
Suzannah (51:29)
you
you for having me.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (51:46)
Subscribe to Hello Chaos, give us a like, a comment, share, or a really good review, help us grow and build a more connected entrepreneurial community. Hello Chaos is one of the many resources brought to you by OrangeWIP. That is OrangeWIP WIP for Work in Progress. OrangeWIP is a multimedia company dedicated to serving founders and entrepreneurs in affiliate cities. We're in three South Carolina cities today, looking to expand to...
Suzannah (51:54)
Thank
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (52:14)
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