Jennifer "JJ" Sutton sits down with Debbie Lucas, the founder of The Joy Alchemist, to dive into her inspiring journey from social work to entrepreneurship. Debbie opens up about the defining moments that led her to prioritize joy—not just as a concept but as a business cornerstone. Together, they unpack topics like overcoming guilt, embracing pivots, and building a purpose-driven life and career. With insights on authenticity, community, and resilience, this episode is a must-listen for founders ready to realign with their “why.”
Key Takeaways
🌈 Joy is Your Business Superpower
Debbie Lucas transformed her life and business when she made joy a non-negotiable. Her advice to founders? Joy isn’t a selfish indulgence; it’s the fuel that powers your creativity and success.
🔄 Pivoting is a Power Move
Debbie’s story shows that clarity often comes through change. By pivoting into a path that felt authentic, she unlocked her true potential.
📣 Realness Wins Every Time
Debbie grew her audience on LinkedIn by ditching perfection and embracing authenticity. Her secret? Speak from the heart and trust that your tribe will follow.
Timestamps
00:00 Introduction to Chaos and Joy
04:56 The Aha Moment: Embracing Joy
10:02 Finding Joy in Community and Belonging
13:15 The Power of Journaling for Joy
20:12 Cultural Expectations and Choices
23:40 Radical Responsibility and Joy
30:37 Choosing Joy: The Power of Positive Mindset
34:34 Nurturing Hobbies: Finding Balance in Life
36:05 Authenticity in Business: The Importance of Purpose
39:22 Social Media Strategy: Choosing the Right Platform
44:59 The Evolution of Music Consumption
48:10 Connecting with the Audience: Where to Find Debbie
Connect with Debbie:
Website: https://www.debbielucas.me/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/spiritualdebbie/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/spiritual_debbie/
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (00:01.656)
Hi and welcome to Hello Chaos, a weekly podcast exploring the messy and chaotic lives and minds of founders, entrepreneurs, and innovators. Each week I have the privilege to speak with founders across the spectrum, founders from different industries, different phases and stages, from startups to mature businesses of all shapes and sizes.
Our listeners really get to hear the real, the raw, the unvarnished stories, getting incredible insights on what it takes to start and scale a business or to become a better founder, a better leader, a better CEO of your life, of our lives. Today we have Debbie Lucas. She is the founder of the Joy Alchemist and some other things. I'm interested in learning more about her. She focuses on serving women to help them confidently
prioritize their joy without feeling selfish or guilty. She is out of Scotland, so I am super thrilled to introduce Debbie. Welcome to Hello Chaos.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (01:05.877)
Hi Jennifer and thank you so much for having me on. I'm delighted to be chatting to you and sharing more about my journey and hopefully inspire other people as well.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (01:14.936)
Well, start us out with like how did you, because I know this isn't your first rodeo. So just tell us like, how did you get to become a founder, an entrepreneur and doing what you're doing?
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (01:27.843)
So my trade, as it were, I qualified as a social worker back in 2002. And for the past 23 years, I've been working as a social worker. But almost 18 years ago, I had my son. And just because of circumstances, I had to go back to work full time when he was eight months old. And obviously, the guilt of then not being there for him has always been lingering. And it's been a dream of mine since then.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (01:49.678)
Mm-hmm.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (01:55.661)
to be able to work for myself, to have time freedom, predominantly so that I could be there for him unconditionally. But, you know, life happens and you just kind of get caught up in motherhood and the routines and day to day.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (02:07.374)
Right? I've got four kids, so I know. They go from 13 right now, 13 to 24 is where I am.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (02:13.113)
Oh my god, yes. So I'm kind of in the middle of where you're at with him. And so obviously then the pandemic happened and I was working from home and my whole work life or life work harmony completely shifted and I really enjoyed being, you know, my hour commute every day was no longer there. I was home with him. So, you know, I was able to do lunches, help him with his schoolwork and that really kind of brought back that desire to be able
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (02:16.8)
Mm-hmm.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (02:27.246)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (02:41.294)
Yeah.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (02:41.881)
to run my own business and manage my own time. And so in 2021, I undertook a master NLP and hypnosis life coaching certification with the view, you because I felt like it was quite aligned to my career as a social worker in terms of helping people and allowed me that space to be able to create my business. so in the 2021 into 2022, I can set about establishing myself online.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (02:57.336)
Right.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (03:07.105)
learning so much about how to do website design, social media, digital marketing, and kind of fell into more business coaching kind of work. And then I was speaking to a few of my clients and they like, I get why my website needs to look a certain way. I get why my branding needs to be a certain way, but I don't have the capacity, the digital, technological know how to do it. And so I moved more into online business management for a couple of years and was really helping coaches.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (03:28.014)
Great.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (03:34.893)
to create and launch the online courses, the programs, et cetera. And that really kind of kept me through a period of personal transition in my life. I went through a separation. I had some other personal situations going on, which kind of came to a conclusion last September. And through all of that, there was a lot of questions for me about who am I, how am I prioritizing myself and my own joy?
Last November, I was sitting in a group container and this was like literally a light bulb went on, you know, because I was hiding behind my mission as an online business manager slash business coach that I was helping other healers to heal the world by helping them to reach more people. And it was like, like I did a post about this. There's like a cosmic mic drop. It was like, you are a healer. You can be.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (04:18.158)
Right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (04:24.403)
That's your aha. That was like your big explosion.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (04:28.953)
Exactly. And I remember sending a voice note into the group and I was literally tear streaming down my face going like, this is what I'm here to do. And I got goosebumps every time I tell the story because ever since that moment in November and I completely pivoted my business and I describe it as coming home to myself. So although I pivoted, you know, it was coming home to myself. at this point I was still running my business as a side hustle alongside my day job. And I had a real plan and a vision of resigning
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (04:48.002)
Yeah.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (04:58.283)
in January, right this month. But then when I pivoted, I thought, no, now I've got to start rebranding. I've got to start from scratch again. But the, I didn't have a deadline as such, but my goal of resigning in January actually became even more firm in my mind and felt even more right. And so very timely for this recording, I literally handed in my resignation on Monday and my last day was on February 4th. So I'm literally just,
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (05:23.16)
Congratulations.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (05:27.415)
I describe it as I did a tandem skydive 20 years ago. And I describe it as that moment of like jumping out of the plane, except this time I don't have somebody strapped to me with a parachute. It's faith in me and faith in the universe. And I'm just going with the flow and everything has aligned for me. even big opportunities like coming on this podcast, it's just everything has fallen so seamlessly into place. And I'm just sitting in this space of bliss and flow and
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (05:37.58)
Right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (05:47.767)
Mm-hmm.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (05:55.043)
trusting that whatever comes next will be in my highest purpose and good.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (06:00.154)
my gosh, I've got a few questions, so just to give clarity, it's so fascinating to me, because I think we've all had those moments of clarity of those, I call it the ah-hahs, right? It's either an insight into, we started a business and we've kind of gone through and it's like an explosion of I either need to focus here or align here, or you just get real clarity around
what either our business or our own purpose. it's, you know, I've talked to so many founders and especially women, that's what I want to, because you call it the joy alchemist. And I've got a group of women that we started doing just as a group of CEOs or women founders of, we call it the Joy Lab, of how do we find our joy and our purpose? How are we aligning that with our personal brand?
Or if we own companies, how are we aligning those things with the company that we run? But it's, and I'm curious to get your kind of input on this of there is a lot of guilt that we have to unpack. And I think that blocks a lot of finding the joy. Because it's like, no, no, my purpose is to serve others.
and we have a hard time reflecting it back. But I've seen kind of, I've seen transformations in myself when I've gone through how do I align and know, be, get that clarity on myself, but I've seen it in other people. And just to watch your language, you know, your body language, the energy when you even talk about it of, you will hold onto that memory even 10 years from now.
and 15 years from now and 20, like it will be, it will be that moment that you'll never forget. It's such a powerful internal thing. It's hard to explain it, like what, yeah, but when you go, like our whole aura and energy changes, body language, and people read that and see that, and so I think, you you have that clarity.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (08:26.39)
it's gonna work like it's gonna move forward very well. Okay, so I'm curious, you said that you got, did you say hypnosis on, like for certification of hypnosis, did you say that? For healing, as part of the social work part?
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (08:40.758)
is on your
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (08:45.625)
No, so I undertook this off my own back. It was a certification I did with the view of establishing my own business. And I think at that point, my confidence wasn't quite there yet to show up as that life coach, you know, whatever iteration it took. Absolutely.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (08:48.374)
Okay.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (08:52.747)
Okay.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (08:58.774)
Yeah, it's that imposter syndrome of like, can I do this? And it's okay, yeah, yeah, all right.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (09:06.795)
And, you know, I just wanted to come back to your point about the work the Joy Lab is doing with some of the other co-founders and CEOs. That just makes my heart sing because, you know, if we don't enjoy what we do, where's the point? know, because, you know, yeah, it might not be miserable. We might not be completely unhappy, but life is here to be enjoyed and to just be celebrated. so, you know, bringing joy into the mundane, you so even like my,
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (09:10.157)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (09:18.988)
Right. Right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (09:30.029)
Right?
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (09:34.777)
I love cups of tea, I don't drink coffee, but like every cup of tea, I'm like, this tea is amazing. know, just literally, if that's the only joy I can find in the day, because sometimes life happens and, you know, it's rubbish, but, you know, there's always joy to be found.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (09:40.91)
That's right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (09:49.102)
in every moment and we struggled with what do we call kind of our group. was, we were trying to find a sense of belonging, trying to like, it's one of the reasons I started Orange Whip, is the Hello Chaos is, know, one of the, it's a content resource as part of Orange Whip, which means WIP for Work in Progress, because we all are.
And we hear this like we need a community, sense of belonging as founders, as entrepreneurs, as business leaders. You know, we're so isolated and alone sometimes. And I think, you know, even more so if you're a minority owned, women owned business, we, you know, it's very hard to find like missioned people in our circle. So that's what we were like, what do we, you know.
Joy was the word, was like, do call it belonging? Do we just call it like growth mindset? Do we call it, know, foundership? And it's like, so we called it, because it was all about how do we find joy in the purpose of why we, the gifts that we've been given. Because we all have gifts and, you know, no matter what those, you know, but a of times we have a hard time finding them.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (10:53.529)
Yes.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (11:09.367)
apps.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (11:09.44)
and how do we create purpose around them? What's our impact on the world? But then finding joy in that process. for me, joy meant, you know, when I was having like really hard, like low, I caught, know, because Foundership is highs and lows, right? You go through valleys and then, you know, high tops. And when you're in that valley, sometimes you're like, so I...
I've said this on the podcast before. I started journaling and I don't call journaling because I've got friends that write books. I just write down three things at night and my phone notes that Chandler laughs at. You know the notes, I take everything on my phone on notes and he's like, I just don't even, you know.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (12:04.377)
Hahaha
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (12:06.464)
Work everything, everything is just like, but I can email it to myself, I can make a word, you know, but I just jot down thoughts. I have a running, and it's called, it's like, it's my joy journal, but I write down three things. Every day I date it, it's like a running note sheet. And I, you know, what did I find a moment of joy today? What was my greatest moment of joy?
And it's sometimes sad when it's like, you know, and that shouldn't be sad, but it's something like, I had a really good cup of coffee or I met somebody, you know, I met somebody new on the pot, you know, and I felt like I made a friend for life or something. And then the other one is like, what gave me the most angst or what's like making me anxious? And I call it getting out of the get the ghosts and the shadows out of just.
verbalizing them. And then the other was like, what am I most looking forward to? And so it's just, and sometimes it's, you know, it's one line. It's not like a book. It's just three things. And I've noticed since I've done that, my mindset has shifted to recognize those joy moments. And it's anything. It might be, you know, my daughter made me crack up. You know, we giggled on the way to school. I mean, it's just anything.
that you found joy in, the greatest moment of joy. But what I notice more when I go back and kind of scroll through, reflect on what has impacted me was things that gave me anxiousness or anxiety or just like, I'm disappointed in myself, know. The things that I wrote a year ago to the things that I'm writing currently, it's like, wow, I was anxious over some of that.
Girl, you got like, you know, that's silly. And it's helping my, I can just tell my mindset has shifted, my confidence has gained. I've gotten more clarity around just certain things. it's been a wonderful, I'll call it, a ritual for me. And, you know.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (14:03.673)
Hahaha
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (14:29.09)
I'm just sharing that, but yeah, but joy is like a word that has come up a lot in the last year in my circle. So when I saw him, I'm my God, she's a joy alchemist. I love that.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (14:43.353)
Yeah. And, you know, coming back to your point that you mentioned earlier about, you know, feeling selfish and wanting to serve people. I remember, just moving into 2022, I was doing my own podcast for six months at that point. And I was interviewing somebody who was a women's transformational coach. And she was writing a book and launching a book. I...
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (14:48.973)
Yeah.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (15:07.625)
I was part of proofreading it for her and I literally read the book, put it down and emailed her, I need to work with you. And she was my first ever life coach, transformational coach, whatever you want to call it. And I recall maybe about four weeks into the program with her sitting in a call and having that moment of, yes, I can still be here to serve people, but it doesn't come from that people pleasing side. It comes from the point, the place that it brings me joy to be able to help others.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (15:16.109)
Bye.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (15:31.362)
Right?
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (15:36.791)
And that was a massive shift for me. And when I've pivoted into doing this business now, being a Joy Alchemist, I am my own ideal client, literally, you know, two or three years ago, a few steps ago. And so it was really actually therapeutic for me. I did a lot of journaling as well. And sometimes I write books, sometimes I'm just three lines, whatever works for you in the moment. it was really helpful for me because it helped me to connect with the women that I want to serve because they are me.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (15:47.917)
Right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (15:54.67)
Hmm.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (16:05.825)
And I, you know, I'm not a person to say I've got it all together, you know, but I am a few steps ahead. And if I can make that path easier, if I, you know, I kind of describe it as my heart is shining so bright right now and it's a beacon for whoever wants to kind of come in and I can illuminate the path and help you along that because I figured it out for myself. There's still healing to be done and still triggered like everybody else's. I still have those moments. And I've no doubt as I go into this new chapter, you know, there's a lot of uncertainty and
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (16:09.656)
Right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (16:29.368)
Right.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (16:35.427)
Feeling selfish because I'm a single parent and I need to keep a roof over my son's head. I need to keep it. And I don't have guaranteed income. I'm given up a really well-paid salary, but I'm taking that leap. I'm choosing joy, I'm choosing the freedom and I'm trusting in myself. And the reason I chose Joy Alchemist is because yes, I've got the kind of science a bit of NLP, neuro-linguistic programming, life coaching, frameworks and things like that, but I'm also very spiritual.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (16:40.845)
Right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (16:46.368)
All right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (16:57.304)
Yeah.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (17:04.535)
And I bring in all of those kind of spiritual elements as well. And it's about like working with what works in the moment, going with the flow and being fluid within that because not one size fits all. And it's about working with a person in front of you and what they're bringing to the table as well.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (17:20.088)
When, so when you're working with women and it's, you know, cause I've talked to a lot of men founders and entrepreneurs and they struggle with imposter syndrome just like us and there's the shadow guilt moments and leadership development, you know, but I don't, you kind of nailed the, your why around to confidently and
help them prioritize joy without feeling selfish and guilty. That's I think a key, I haven't, now if we, men listeners, you're like, if that, because I think we have a layer that is innately about like we are wired that way, whether it's from society or just that's the, that's how females are wired. And especially if you're,
you know, a mother in that space. The amount of guilt that I think we feel by even wanting to pursue a career, not just own a business, run a business, just pursuing a career, I think it's a layer that male founders, male entrepreneurs can't even comprehend. I'm just curious, like what is your
experience or your observations in that is is do you see because like I said I see a lot of men like we talk about a lot of like that imposter or just the lack of the confidence to to lead or having the skill sets to really be you know how do I lead a team and and create you know this this energy we all like I think that's a human thing but the selfishness and the guilt
I haven't heard that from men, counterparts.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (19:25.657)
Absolutely. And I think it's a familial, cultural, societal kind of expectation. even, I mean, I it's different for different countries, like, know, maternity leave, you know, in the UK, think, forgive me now, but I think like more recently in the last, I would say 10 years, paternal leave and maternal leave for having a baby is now equal and can be shared between a mother and a father. But that's only been in the last five or 10 years.
before that, you know, a mother would get X amount of months or weeks maternity leave, dad would get two weeks. So he would be back in, you know, and so just even that mindset or that expectation that the mother is the nurture or the care or the mother is the one that gives up the career if she had one to be able to look after the baby. And, you know, I'm not saying any one way is right or wrong, but there's definitely that, but it is shifting. And I think, you know, for a long time,
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (20:12.91)
Mm-hmm.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (20:23.641)
women had that choice of it's either or. You either commit to your career and your family takes a back seat. So you either don't have children or your children are looked after by somebody else or you're a stay at home mum and you know if you've got if you're lucky enough to have a partner or a husband he's the one earning you know the bringing the money and basically so that is shifting and I'm really glad that it's shifting but you know
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (20:33.346)
Right?
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (20:48.629)
As I suppose in that maternal instinct, and I get not every woman has children, but that maternal instinct is an innate part of who we are and we want to protect our babies. even though my son is now going to be going off to college or university soon, I still fiercely want to be there for him. And even though 18 years after I wanted to do this, he needs me in a different way and I still feel responsible for him. you
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (21:10.872)
Yeah.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (21:14.403)
that this was like, had to do so much work on myself and feeling safe to do this and not feel selfish and know that actually me being able to be there for him is the greatest gift I can give him. Even if it means that, you we're not able to go and have fancy meals out every week like we maybe do now. You know, we're not gonna eat beans on toast. We'll be fine, we will manage. We will be okay.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (21:38.542)
That's her. And I think it's, I mean, I think it's also the acceptance of our decisions, our choices, the fact that we are, you know, we're able to make choices and say, yes, I'm gonna have a career or I am gonna be a stay at home. But I think there's this layer of we've got to stop the judgment on each other of what's better. I think that is a society.
thing, the fact that you guys are just in your country, like I'm going paternity leave, I don't think, mean, two weeks, if that's, now you're saying it's equal, like two weeks is now the, I think that's the normal here. don't know, like, Taylor's going, I have no freaking clue. Yeah, he's like, I'll let you know. But I was like, you know, 30 years in corporate, you know, was women, it was like,
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (22:22.734)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (22:38.24)
Okay, I'm gonna take the 12 weeks or like the, you know, the, some financially have to go back after six weeks, depending on, and I know other countries, you know, get six months to a year. mean, US, have very, it's like, it's enough time for basically women to heal their bodies. You know, and for some, know, it is, it takes time to heal.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (22:58.585)
list. Yes.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (23:08.11)
physically to be able to go back into the workforce. But yeah, I think it's this layer of like, who do I choose? Do I choose my career? Okay, that's selfish. But that's the gift that we've been given. Or is it, no, no, I'm really a stay at home mom. I wanna be that nurturing, that
There are people that are more gifted in that manner. But that's what it's like when I've experienced that with all of my four babies. And their babies, whether they're six months old or 24, they're my babies, will always be my babies. But yeah, it was this like...
you just have to get over it's like the judgment and you know when I would go in the you don't you know do you not want to be at home and I'm like I love to be at home I just think my gifts are better served here and and we just know that we've got to afford the the preschool the child care what you know because there's other people that are gifted to that and
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (24:31.865)
Yes.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (24:32.942)
And that's if we, and that's if you are able to have that circumstance and you're not forced to like, it's where we, think people, well I have to work to be, because otherwise I won't be able to, but I think, you know, it's that, well, that's the choice that you've made, but don't just, like don't put that anger, that bitterness on other people. I think that's where.
our society, our culture needs to shift. There's so much, I don't like things about myself, so therefore I'm going to judge others and make other people feel bad. And the fact that if we can just, as women, get more comfortable with who we are and just knowing, okay, this is my circumstance, it might not be their circumstance, but I shouldn't.
I shouldn't lay my guilt, that weight of negativity. And then if you see that, just go, like I've learned that every time, I don't care. I know enough about myself of I can see the judging. I feel the judging. I can walk into a room and I can sense it, I can feel it. And I've just had to learn over time to just go, pshh, it doesn't.
doesn't affect me. What affected me most was I need to get clarity on me.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (26:08.045)
that just speaks so much to kind of how when I'm working with women, you for me, it's about, there's a term called radical responsibility. And when you can accept that for yourself, that, you know, if you're where you are in this very, very present moment, as being a series of decisions consciously, sometimes, but unconsciously a lot of the time as well, that's brought you to this point. And it's a better pill to swallow, to know that, you know, even if your situation's rubbish and crap.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (26:27.821)
Right.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (26:37.515)
It's you make decisions and blaming somebody else. Nobody can make you. Okay. mean, apart from somebody potentially holding a gun against your head, right. Apologies for trigger trigger warning there. but you know, nobody can make you do something. You're making a decision. And when I'm supporting women, what I like to do is like, it doesn't matter what the decision is, choose what brings you joy. And it might not always make logical sense. You know, like for me, given up a really well paid stable job.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (26:39.811)
Right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (26:46.029)
Right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (27:00.909)
Right.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (27:07.693)
doesn't make logical sense. It makes no sense at all, but it brings me so much joy. And as long as you're not deliberately harming someone or deliberately intending to cause someone harm, then everything will work out. And I was in the office yesterday and I was telling the senior management team I was resigning and the response, because they could see the joy in them. Joy in them, right? Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (27:09.518)
Great.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (27:21.336)
Right?
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (27:30.36)
They could see it. They saw the energy. Yeah.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (27:33.997)
Joy is my word for 2025 and I hadn't told them that and they were like, we can just see the joy in your face. And I was like, exactly. And people were smiling and, yeah, they were saying they're going to be sad to see me go and all that, which I really appreciate and was really kind. you know, yeah, choose what brings you joy. as said, as long as it doesn't harm, intentionally harm anybody else, that joy will spill over. You know, even my friends, you know.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (27:40.931)
Yeah.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (27:59.969)
my son even, can just tell I'm showing up differently, you know, and, it just, it just lights up my whole world and everybody else around me. And that's, that's amazing.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (28:03.694)
Great.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (28:09.282)
Well, and that's gonna be, know, the circle that you have been in and the people that you were, they saw that. It's gonna trigger, you're gonna get phone calls to go, okay, help me do that. Like, I need that. Walk me through that process. So it is, you know, there is a monetization of that. you know, that's part of building the business, right? So.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (28:22.542)
Yes.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (28:39.04)
When you've gone through your journey and really kind of self-discovery of like, okay, you know, you're a healer, but it's really like helping people find their joy and that brings you joy. What's something that you really like about yourself that you wish other people recognized more about you?
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (29:02.372)
Um, it's, the quiet determination. Um, it's, it's the, the courage to, despite some of the naysayers, despite some people going, oh, running a business is hard. You could lose your home. You could, know, um, it's, it's, it's staying steadfast in myself that I, I know what my purpose in life is now and I am aligning to that. Um, and that's what I, you know, hope people can see and how much joy that brings me so that.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (29:15.821)
Right.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (29:31.437)
they can find their purpose, whatever that looks like for them and find their joy as well.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (29:36.686)
Yeah. So what are, so you've just like launched into this. you were talking to you at like the early stage of, all right, I've let go of this, like a little bit of a safety net and I've started the, you know, I'm on my own now. What are you most fearful of? Like, is there anything that you're going, what, like, what's the wall or the barrier that you're most fearful?
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (29:45.197)
Hehehe
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (30:04.311)
You know, honestly, nothing, nothing. you know, since I came home to myself in November, which is that light bulb moment I had, I have just surrendered to the universe. And there was, I was doing an online course and the person was talking about now, not how, staying present in the now and only knowing the next step and only focusing on the next step. And that's where I'm leaning into my intuition.
Will this bring me joy? Will this help me grow? Will this move the needle to where I want to be in my business? And yeah, I have goals and aspirations for what I want that to look like, but I'm not focusing on how I'm going to get there. I am literally waking up every day and going, what do I need to do today to get me there? And is it going to my joy? There's that saying, does it help? I've got it up on my pen board. Does that help me grow flow and grow flow? Or I kind of remember what the third one is. know, so anything that I'm doing, like
And it's about prioritizing what brings me joy, but prioritizing what will move the needle as well. So sometimes there are maybe tasks that we don't want to have to do, but I try and find some joy in that because I know it's going bring me closer.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (31:05.176)
That's right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (31:13.068)
Right. That's right. We always say you still have to eat your peas. Right. Not everything we do is all you know flowers and candy and cake. You know there there there are days that you've got to actually do the shit the shitty work you're in the. Yeah. It's like you know I don't like doing this stuff sometimes. I have an office sometimes I'm cleaning toilets. So it's you know and I laugh at my.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (31:18.103)
Yes.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (31:38.595)
Thank
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (31:41.486)
I have a friend that drives by our office and I might be out there sweeping and he'll honk the horn. And he's like, so how is it going? I'm like living my best life, dude. I'm living the life, living the dream.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (31:47.115)
Hahaha
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (31:53.241)
But every single thing that you do is just taking you close. Like I used to not really like content creation for social media, but now because I'm talking to myself or a version of myself, like, I've got content for the rest of the year and I've got ideas and so much, and I'm like, I've not got enough time to create it all. it's like, but I genuinely don't feel any fear. like, this is like, I cannot wait to see what happens. It's so exciting.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (32:03.15)
Right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (32:07.829)
I know!
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (32:20.278)
Okay, so I'm gonna, let's fast forward one year from now. We come, I'm gonna come to Scotland, because that's my dream, that's my bucket list, I'm coming there, and I'm gonna meet you in person, Debbie, and we're gonna meet next January, and we're gonna celebrate. What are we celebrating?
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (32:26.221)
Get this.
Love it.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (32:41.133)
We are celebrating that I would love to be a TEDx speaker. So I'll have had a TEDx talk and I have, and my group coaching program is running and women are like, there's a waiting list for it and people are just like ready to choose joy, prioritize joy. And I've got my online courses that are running that, you know, so people can come in at whatever price point and timeframe that they, that suits them. like,
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (32:47.118)
Alright.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (33:06.623)
Life is just flowing. am traveling, you know, I hope I'm still here when you come in Scotland, because I might be traveling in Europe or something. Yeah, definitely, you know, because because I've created my online business, I can do that from anywhere. So I can go live in Berlin for a month if I wanted to, and just run it from there or Amsterdam or wherever that's that's my two. That's my two bucket lists for this year.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (33:12.044)
Yeah. Well, I'll meet you somewhere.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (33:22.158)
Thank
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (33:27.182)
Thank you.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (33:31.947)
And yeah, so I'm just like, life is flowing. I am still choosing joy and women are feeling much more happier and the world's a happier place because of it.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (33:41.678)
Well, let's manifest that. We're putting it out on the universe and we're gonna celebrate that a year from now. Is there anything that keeps you up at night that you're stressed out about or anything? Or are you just really kind of in, you're in the moment. You're like in.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (33:46.303)
Absolutely.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (33:55.865)
I am so in the moment. for me, it's more just like, don't have enough hours in the day because I'm so excited to get everything done and out there. And so I'm ready to having to slow myself down and enjoy this process as well. And I suppose that's the bit for me is like, right. I've got my notes up, so I'm constantly like writing down things so I don't forget. But it is about like, what do I need to do right now? What's gonna move the needle right now? I don't need to be 10 steps ahead.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (34:19.96)
Let me, I gotta focus, you know, yeah.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (34:25.013)
That's been the biggest challenge for me slowing down because I'm so excited. And you know, like when you're free falling, when you jump out of that plane, you're going very, fast.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (34:26.861)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (34:31.638)
I know you're like I could do a thousand things. Okay, no, no, no. Let's yeah. Yeah, no, that's a that's a good piece of advice. I think we all got I've done I know I've done that Chandler's over you're going. Yeah, we've been there. So if you had to sum up your entrepreneurial your founder journey, which you're just entering this past chapter, what would be the word you would use to describe?
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (34:35.587)
Great, slow down, slow down.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (34:44.153)
Mm-hmm.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (35:01.177)
There's two words that come to mind, determination or focus, but I'm landing on determination because as I said at the start, I went through two very difficult personal situations that kind of made me feel like maybe I should just stay with the security of a paid job. I know what I'm doing, but I was determined to get to this point and that brings in the laser focus, but where even though I had to maybe slow down and take some time out at times.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (35:16.856)
Right?
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (35:23.544)
Right.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (35:27.641)
came back, I came back, I came back and I kept going and yes I pivoted and I had a bit of windy journey to get here but I stayed the course.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (35:37.23)
Stay in the course, determination, focus, I love it. So now, fast forward, what's the next chapter? What's that word?
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (35:44.914)
and celebration, celebration of life, celebration of joy.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (35:47.15)
celebration. I love it. we've asked. So the next chapter word, you know, it's new that we've started asking that and we haven't had a repeat, but we've asked the past chapter word, I think to like several hundred hundreds of founders. We've not had a repeat word yet. So that just tells you and you know, we talked to people from, like I said, all spectrums.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (36:10.786)
Wow.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (36:17.576)
And, but yes, everybody, we all have themes. I think of like our struggles. We all kind of go through these revelation moments that are very similar. You know, it just shows that, you know, there's, we're being a founder, being entrepreneur, being innovator kind of in the space. We all come at things very like-missioned. You know, we're all kind of like-minded, but we find ourselves like so many similarities. That's why it's so good to,
build, you know, have this like greater community because I think we all kind of have, you know, we all think alike but we all but we all come at it from different journeys.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (36:55.961)
But we're all-
Exactly, you know, because like, you know, in the spiritual world, you know, the universal laws are the concepts, they are what they are, but we all bring our own spin to it and we all bring our own approach to it. you know, I don't see it as competition with anybody else doing what I do, because I know that I do it in my way. And I trust that people will that are attracted to me will resonate with that, as they will with somebody else doing that as well. you know, there's enough space for us all. There's if you believe in abundance, there's enough to go around for everybody.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (37:09.805)
Right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (37:16.834)
Right?
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (37:25.72)
That's right.
There is, absolutely. Is there something our listeners would find kind of interesting or fascinating, surprised to learn about you that's not on your LinkedIn or anything else that you don't really have on your resume, se, but is there something that's like a surprising note?
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (37:48.313)
Bye.
Yeah, I guess my hobbies are very nurturing hobbies. So I love to knit and crochet. I was called the youngest pensioner in town at one point by my friends because I love to bake, I love to garden, I love to knit and crochet. And so, you know, that's my go-to mindfulness activity actually, because it's quite rhythmic with crocheting the cap and you can get into a rhythm. So that's not something I talk about a lot, but I do enjoy that.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (38:10.766)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (38:17.386)
I love that. And what did you call, what was the word you used that your friends call you?
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (38:21.239)
the oldest, sorry, the youngest pensioner in town. Yeah, OAP, yeah, old age pensioner.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (38:24.099)
Pensioner?
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (38:27.918)
An own pensioner. Like a pensioner. Okay. Social Security or whatever. Oh, okay. I was like, I've never heard that. Yeah. I've never heard that. I love it. And is there, you know, I know you're kind of, is there a favorite book of yours that have or a podcast? I know, besides Hello Chaos and all that. That's like your go to for.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (38:34.329)
Somebody who's retired, yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. That's a UK term, obviously.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (38:53.826)
like a resource or things like a guidebook or guide podcast or person that you.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (38:59.691)
And so the book, the coach that I worked with before, so she wrote her books called, Authentic Aligned and Abundant, the AAA guy to Manifesting Your Dream Life, I think it's called. really, the coaching program takes you to that journey. But I go back to it all the time because it is about being authentic, knowing who you are, knowing what you're here for, aligning your life with that, and then creating the abundance from that.
that I'm a living, breathing example of working through that process of what she does as well. So eternally grateful to her for that.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (39:36.514)
that's a great book. I like the AAA. Funny yourself. Have you received now that you've kind of told, has anyone come out and given you advice that you're like, I'm gonna take that advice to heart as like, you know, starting the business or when you started your other business and was doing those things, was there any kind of advice that you were like, ooh, that was good. And I'm gonna, I use that on a practical basis.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (39:39.127)
Yeah.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (39:54.859)
Yeah.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (40:04.153)
I think for me, it's about, you know, like the content creation on social media, you know, there needs to be a purpose and it needs to convert, you know, I've got so many ideas and it's something that I'm still learning to do, but in this new iteration of my business, but have a, have a purpose behind it. You know, yes, there's some value posts that just purely are value, but there's no point posting day in and day out if you're not actually getting people through the door and paying clients through the door. And that's really important. And it needs to speak to the transformation.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (40:12.11)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (40:28.525)
Right.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (40:33.891)
that they're gonna receive, know, just telling people, you know, I can do X, Y, and Z, unless they know what difference is gonna be for them and it doesn't resonate in their heart and make them go set up and go, hold on, I want some of that. No point in it. So that's been the biggest shift for me in terms of creating content.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (40:35.491)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (40:44.898)
Right. Yeah. Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (40:51.31)
And it's interesting, I've gone through that myself of like, ooh, I used to post and write stuff to go on the business like that. And somebody was like, you need to put that into your own spin on your own platforms. And I'm like, hey, oh, I don't wanna put myself out there. And that was like a, I had to make in 2024 was getting comfortable doing that. And now it's like, yeah, now I have more clarity around that.
I run a marketing agency, you would think that it's like, I got to just follow what we tell our clients of. It's about clarity of message. It's about talking about, you know, we say finding the pain points of who your audience is and how your services, your solution, you know, solves that pain point or the gains that they'll receive from working with you, your solution and talking about it, but doing it authentically and
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (41:41.678)
Yes.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (41:49.26)
the voice and you're right when you start, I started like, I got content for days. I, you know, it's just, and excited about putting that out there. But what we've also a little, you know, but it's also about being consistent, across the platforms. I talked to a lot of founders too. They're like, well, I have this, I have my business Instagram. And then as in like, you know, it would be like Jennifer Sutton marketer.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (42:18.318)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (42:18.638)
Jennifer Sutton, why, know, I was like, it's one and the same. Why have multiple channels for that? Just have one Instagram that is you, that you talk about your business, you talk about your family life, you talk about, you know, you being a business owner, you, you know, you talk about your trips. You've got to make your own guidelines of, I'm not going to show my kids faces or maybe you are, you know, whatever that is, but you've got to come up with those own guidelines.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (42:23.555)
Yes.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (42:48.962)
but don't have three different Instagrams or three, like four, like it's crazy.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (42:54.88)
The other tip around social media for me was like, and it's what I when I was doing business coaching is pick one platform and do it well, because the algorithm likes you to be active on the platform when you're posting and you can't do that. Yeah, so like last 2023, I picked LinkedIn, and I grew my audience from 90 to I think I'm close to 2500 now. And they're all aligned and I'm up on there every single day I'm engaging and
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (43:01.87)
All
Yeah, sometimes it's daily, you know.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (43:17.282)
Keep it going. Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (43:21.934)
All right.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (43:22.501)
It's only through that determination and consistency that I was able to do that. And I couldn't have done that across Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, X or Twitter, whatever, you know, all the different platforms that they are. So I've definitely seen that that's made a massive difference for me in terms of my growth and my audience reach.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (43:37.934)
Absolutely and I understand that's how I give the same advice of if you're on Instagram choose also what you put like my Facebook is all it's just personal stuff like I family stuff so you can go and see me I'll post things about the podcaster but it'd be more like my personal take on it and and Instagram it's a blend but yeah LinkedIn is purely and I used to only post like once a week
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (43:57.047)
Is that, is that?
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (44:05.55)
I've made a goal for 2025 daily and I've I started that on Christmas Day and I've been doing that. I have been creating and but it's easy like I don't know there was like a release in my head of oh I'm just talking about shit I talk about all the time to my team or to clients and I just you know because somebody was like I talk about this like our meeting and just regurgitate it on and I'm like.
yeah I can just remove you know names but at least those insights and and I've just you just have to get over that but you're right like the minute you start focusing on that I saw we saw a jump in our social with that can but consistency showing up being present but being clear with the message and clear with what you what you also want your
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (45:01.357)
Yes.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (45:05.09)
your audience to do. I mean, that's something we had to learn of like, we're just going to put stuff out there. They'll they'll know what to do. And it's like, somebody was like, you need to put on there. No, no, DM, you know, be very clear with the action that you want people to take. Because, you know, whatever, I think we've shifted as a society of we have to tell people it's no longer an implication.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (45:17.784)
Yes.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (45:28.769)
Yeah, no, people don't have the you know, and like when I was when I was doing website design for a time period, I was saying, know, three clicks or less to get to where they need to be to take the action, you know, because any more than that, you've lost them, they don't have the attention span anymore. And that's no disrespect, that's just genuinely people are so busy and their minds are so busy, count myself in that. I have to click through five times to find something and I need to know you've lost me, I'm away, you know.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (45:44.034)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (45:49.293)
Right?
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (45:54.498)
Yeah, or if you don't like it's, I think our attention span is like a video, know, 30 seconds if you're not, if you don't have me as a hook within 30 seconds to it. So what we see, we work with companies and they're like, make me a five minute video and I'm going, well one, nobody, unless it's like a podcast type of a interview style, but I was like, but we've got to hook them quickly.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (45:59.255)
Yes.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (46:15.149)
Yeah. Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (46:21.022)
Or I watched these, but we have a client that we had to redo all their videos because it's, it was one boring. it was one camera shot and they're just talking for three minutes and in the video, then they do their call to action of like their why and their purpose at three minutes and four to like towards am like, no one's going to like, do you have anybody watching this has any, you know, well, no, everyone stops after I'm like, yeah, but you're not even getting to the meat.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (46:50.743)
Yeah, yeah, you can just start with that and work it backwards.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (46:50.784)
until the end. Start with it and so that's what we've had to redo those. But yeah, it's I think the latest I think stat of Jen, well the younger millennials through Jen, what is it the Alpha group that's in high school today, middle school, high school today. They can't even get through
they don't listen to full songs anymore. So if a song is like two minutes, they're only listening to the first like 30 seconds to 45 seconds to a song. So even, know, or like, you know, from a music industry, the whole concept of how albums were put out and albums were more, like, it's more of a story and it's a journey. Like, there's no concept for that.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (47:30.745)
Wow.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (47:41.091)
Yeah. If you want to join me.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (47:48.27)
because they won't listen to the full album. They, just a song and not even a full song. I mean, like, because I was like, oh God, poor Dave Matthews. No one's gonna sit through a 20 minute or the Grateful Dead, like, good Lord, they're not, you know, some of the great, you know, when I listen to music, I laugh every time. I'm like, oh God, I love this song. And I have to live, I'm like, oh, this is an eight minute song. Well, there's a whole.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (47:52.013)
What's this a song?
Wow, that's actually quite scary.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (48:16.12)
There's a whole slew, decades of generations that will never hear this beautiful song.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (48:22.489)
And I bet you know the lyrics from start to finish, to the very last note, which is something that they probably never would.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (48:25.829)
yeah?
No, no. They hear like six beats, they're out. They're like, got it. I got that concept. Or, you know, lot of the music that they know is only through like the music from TikTok, which is those 30 seconds. I mean, you know, who is the Chapel Row? don't know, Chapel Row? You know, when you look at like the song that is so popular right now, it's the, yeah, the Pink Pony.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (48:33.965)
Well, well.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (48:41.902)
Yeah.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (48:57.625)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (48:59.082)
If I'm, I'm, I gotta tap into my 13 year old, know, whatever her mom, is yeah. Pink pony club or whatever. She wrote that song and playing in clubs in 2012.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (49:04.099)
I love you so much.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (49:12.131)
Wow.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (49:13.9)
But yet it doesn't, wasn't until people used it on TikTok, found it, and that became the popularity. But they only knew the 22nd version of it. Like the rendition, that's where you see all the in the dance clubs. But that's over a decade ago. a lot, know, it just shows like consistency showing up, you never know. But yeah, but also the attention span of these younger audiences.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (49:20.185)
Yeah.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (49:44.397)
I'm pleased to say that my target audience is, well, don't know, millennials and maybe a little bit of Gen X as well. So I think I've to get to them.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (49:44.962)
Sound bites.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (49:51.926)
Yeah, well, I mean, you know, I used to, you know, I grew up in the marketing space as a media planner buyer. And I mean, and I shouldn't see and I shouldn't go, this isn't like this isn't this isn't a true revelation. mean, you know, back in, you know, we used to buy newspapers and, you know, or buy print, you know, when you're in there. Well, media consumption for how people read newspapers were you couldn't put like ads or headline.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (50:19.417)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (50:20.568)
for something that was like a month out because it was a, they read it for like the day or tomorrow or maybe the next day. So it's like when you're kind of planning your messages and the way that people read. like, where do you want to place your ad in the newspaper? Like what section and you know, where's your ad? How was it stacked? Because consumers, know, would media, our human brain, they would read newspapers headline to headline.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (50:25.251)
Yes. Yes.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (50:48.044)
So you needed to make sure your ad was placed near a headline to catch their eye, right? And so that, know, and that's no different of that's how people read. And if it was like the headline caught their eye, then they might read like the first paragraph and then the last paragraph and never really read in between. I mean, that hasn't, that kind of consumption hasn't changed when you think of.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (50:52.663)
Yes, I went across it, yeah.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (51:04.643)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (51:15.136)
in our digital, it's the click bait articles of people are, know, the article has nothing to do. It's completely, you know, getting your attention. Then you read the article and like, well, that there's a nothing burger right there. There's nothing. I was that. But they just, you know, they just click on or that seed has been planted. But somebody was like, it's a rebel. I'm like, no, not really. That's how people read newspapers was just headline to headline.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (51:37.592)
Yes.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (51:42.67)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (51:45.166)
I think our metrics of performance has changed now that newspapers and magazines and their digital, they're now compensating the reporters, the journalists, the writers on clicks and not based on, need four articles and I'm gonna pay you X for that content. I'm only gonna pay, I'll pay you a base and then I'll give you a bonus if you hit these, the clicks.
And so, yeah, we drive the behavior that we put, you know, that we put the goal out. But anywho, that could be a whole nother, I could talk forever on media and media consumption. All right, we're out of time. I know we've kind of breezed by. I'm always amazed how fast these things go. But before we leave, where can people find you, about Joy Alchemist, about you? Where do you want to take them?
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (52:23.673)
Yeah.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (52:42.233)
So as I mentioned, I'm most active on LinkedIn. So you can find me over there, Lucas. And my website is debbielucas.me. So .com was too expensive and I thought, well .me, I'm claiming my name, .me, debbielucas.me is where you can, and I'm on Facebook and Instagram as well, but probably less active there than I am on LinkedIn. So LinkedIn is the best place.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (52:55.682)
Yeah, that's right. It's me.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (53:05.548)
Yeah, very good. Well, I appreciate you hanging out. This was a fantastic conversation. It's great to know you. For everyone listening or watching, thank you for joining us. The podcast episode will be available on your favorite podcast platform. So subscribe to Hello Chaos. Give us that five star review on Apple or Spotify. We'd appreciate it. Share this great content. Help us build a more connected entrepreneurial community.
Debbie Lucas - Joy Alchemist (53:11.445)
Thank you
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (53:33.922)
Hello Chaos is one of the many resources brought to you by OrangeWIP. That is OrangeWIP, W-I-P for work in progress, because that's what we all are. OrangeWIP is a multimedia company dedicated to serving founders and entrepreneurs in affiliate cities. We've designed hyper local media platforms to inform, inspire, and be the independent connective tissue between founders and their local entrepreneurial ecosystem. Our innovative digital zines are an all-in-one content hub.
We've got fresh and engaging stories like these that we've been telling today. But we also do curated local content calendars and local dynamic roadmaps to help the founders have just a one source to go for all of their needs to navigate those ecosystems. We've done the hard work for founders, so we make it easy. We are currently in three South Carolina areas today.
looking to expand to other cities because every city needs an Orange Whip. If you'd to be a guest on our podcast or support us, send us an email to hello at orange whip dot com. Thank you for tuning in to Hello Chaos. It is where a-ha meets oh shit. See you again next week.