Entrepreneurship is messy. It’s uncertain. And if you’re waiting until you “have it all figured out,” you’ll never start. Dr. Rebecca Heiss knows this firsthand. From scientist to entrepreneur, she’s faced fear head-on, taken big risks, and built something bigger than herself. In this episode, she and Jennifer “JJ” Sutton dive into the myths of entrepreneurship, why self-doubt is universal, and how community is the real key to success. Plus, Rebecca shares her latest venture, Game Changer, a nonprofit empowering women athletes with confidence and leadership.
What You’ll Walk Away With:
1️⃣ Fear is Fuel, Not a Stop Sign.
Fear isn’t the enemy—it’s just energy. Learn how to flip it into an advantage.
2️⃣ Nobody Has It All Figured Out.
The secret to success? Start before you’re ready, fail fast, and keep learning.
3️⃣ Your People Will Make or Break You.
Whether in business or on the court, success happens when you show up together.
Timestamps
00:00 Welcome to Hello Chaos
02:13 The Journey of Dr. Rebecca Heiss
08:16 Introducing the Fearless Masterclass
10:10 Self-Discovery Through Fearlessness
13:11 Challenges of Entrepreneurship
18:14 Myths of Entrepreneurship
19:14 The Balance of Authenticity and Professionalism
24:51 Navigating Personal and Company Branding
27:37 The Journey of Confidence and Identity
31:05 Facing Misogyny in Business
32:52 The Emotional Rollercoaster of Entrepreneurship
35:07 Learning from Failure and Fear
38:59 Building Community and Industry Change
40:57 Celebrating New Initiatives and Achievements
43:20 The Power of Unexpected Support
47:04 Valuable Lessons from Mentors
48:59 Embracing Fearlessness and Future Goals
🔗 Learn more
Website: https://rebeccaheiss.com/
Website: https://wearegamechanger.org/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rebeccaheiss/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gamechanger.basketball/
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (00:00.213)
As Rebecca is the professional speaker, welcome to Hello Chaos, a weekly podcast exploring the messy and chaotic lives and minds of founders, entrepreneurs, and innovators. Each week, I have the privilege to speak with founders across the spectrum, founders from different industries, different at various stages, from all startups to mature businesses, all shapes and sizes.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (00:06.306)
Thank
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (00:21.606)
you
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (00:25.481)
Our listeners get to hear the raw, the real, the unvarnished viewpoints and stories, but they get incredible insights on what it takes to start and scale a business, become a better founder, better CEO, and a business leader, building that confidence to lead. Today, I am so excited to have a friend of mine on the show, Rebecca Heiss. She is a PhD, founder of Fearless Masterclass, and a new
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (00:44.654)
Thank you so much for having me on. I love that intro, especially the chaos in founders minds that feels so apt. It's just constant chaos out there, but.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (00:54.325)
endeavor. is a co-founder of a new nonprofit called Game Changer. Welcome to Hello Chaos to the chaos.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (01:13.078)
It is.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (01:14.176)
It's good to not be alone in the journey, I guess.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (01:16.158)
It is, that's one of the reasons we started OrangeWIP as a company was how do we build a more connected community, but also just to to normalize things out there. You aren't alone, I guarantee, even though we have very similar themes, challenges and barriers, and we all come at it from a different way, but you're not alone. There's a lot of similarities.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (01:44.698)
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, so often when I'm just talking with people about their stress, I say, you know, your story is my story and my story is your story. And they may not be exactly overlapping, but we have similar themes, right? Whether we are a founder, whether you're a stay at home mom, whether you're a stay at home dad, whether you're a leader, like there are themes in, in stress and in life that, um, we all share and that's special.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (02:00.109)
Right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (02:08.195)
That's right. So your PhD is around stress management, that? okay.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (02:14.318)
Kind of it's actually it's it's stress physiology. So it's understanding the hormones and why those hormones make our brain do funky things Yeah
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (02:25.921)
And then, okay, so just how did you get go from, know, being in more of the medical, physiology, and then now you're a founder of Fearless. How did that all happen? The evolution, because your story is pretty incredible of how how you've, you know, your journey has evolved and it's still evolving.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (02:38.064)
my gosh. Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, it's a, we could spend the next hour talking about this. mean, like, where do we want to begin when I was eight years old? Um, actually, that's a funny, I'll end this start there really quickly, because when I was eight years old, like my sister was checking out the appropriate books in the library, she was checking out like Little Women and all of this like classic literature. And I'm checking out books like Better Than a Lemonade Stand, 15 Ideas for Kid Entrepreneurs, you know, like I was always interested in, in
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (02:49.187)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (03:13.57)
business and building something. I always wanted to create something. And I think at heart, I was a creator and I am a trained scientist. So what I ended up doing through school was doing the thing that I was good at. And I loved creativity. I loved the arts, but I stuck to the safety net of what I was good at, which was science, science and math. And so I went through school and stuck to science and math, science and math. And I just started.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (03:15.767)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (03:35.63)
Right.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (03:41.038)
collecting degrees, honestly, because I didn't really know what I wanted to do. this is is right. Yeah, I want all the things I want all the things and so little known fact, most people don't know this about me. But my first my first master's degree is in ornithology. So I'm a bird nerd. Ornithology. Yeah. Yeah, it's very random. yeah, I studied birds. I actually studied American crows for 10 years.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (03:45.869)
You're like, just let me be a sponge. Let me just bring it all in.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (03:58.371)
What? I was like, what is that? I was like looking at Chandler, she's like, I don't know.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (04:09.762)
So at one point in time, yeah, at one point in time, like I was the predominant biologist. Like if you needed a crow expert, I was a world expert in corpids, which is like crazy, right?
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (04:17.857)
what a fun, fun fact and very interesting. Yeah.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (04:23.592)
really random. But that's actually where all of this started. So
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (04:27.673)
I feel so unworthy. My fun fact is I was a nerd in DC comics and I wrote my college thesis on the history of Batman and its influence on pop culture media.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (04:38.08)
Thank
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (04:44.49)
Dude, that is so much cooler. What are you talking about? That's amazing. What a fun fact. Ornithology. Yeah. And, know, to this day, bless him. My dad is like telling people still he's like, she's an orthodontist. I'm like, no, not so close, so close, but so very far away. Anyway, that was my first. And then I got really interested in evolution human behavior.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (04:49.047)
You got your masters in, how do you pronounce it? Ornithology, okay. Well.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (05:03.533)
No.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (05:12.312)
So I got a master's degree in evolution and human behavior. And the much, much shorter version of a much longer story is I'm in Spain actually doing Crow research. And I get a call from an advisor who's like, Hey, I need someone. He's like a major stress physiologist, like really well known. And he goes, Hey, I need somebody to come to a postdoc with me. And you know, we'd be great. It's like, that's cool. I don't have a doctorate. There's this pause and he's like, I need someone to do a doctorate in my lab.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (05:22.553)
Crap.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (05:41.998)
I was like, I had no intention. anyway, I did, I did a doctorate in, in stress physiology. The work was so interesting and I was in academia and I was, you teaching and loving the research, but there came a time in my life where unfortunately my, my sister-in-law, who was a second sister to me was diagnosed with terminal cancer. And it's one of those moments that just like pulls the rug out. You take a really close look at your life. And I realized in that moment that,
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (06:05.869)
Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (06:12.544)
If that had been my diagnosis, I'd be really disappointed with the life that I'd led. So I quit my job, sold my house and divorced my husband that month.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (06:17.081)
Yeah.
Wow
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (06:21.866)
Not a great plan, you know, not a great plan. didn't really have a plan. I wasn't moving toward anything. Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (06:23.446)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (06:26.893)
Right, but you were just like, those moments, do shape it. January, I'm just gonna side note on a little short story of me too, of it does happen of when I was 30, had in like a year, two year period, we had six friends of ours from high school that all were killed in car accidents or cancer. we lived in Indiana and it was just one of those, I was like,
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (06:32.994)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (06:57.015)
We've got to, I don't want to live here. Like, I don't want to be in the Midwest. It is tight. Like, so you do make these big, huge decisions when you do realize like life is too short and what are we doing? What are we doing?
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (06:59.769)
Yeah. I mean, it's so funny. Like this is literally me taking my own medicine because we talk about, we talk about, I talk about, I'm researching stress, right? And how people make decisions under stress. And here I am doing the thing.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (07:20.547)
Yeah.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (07:24.878)
And then recognizing, wait, I have all of this research. Why am I not applying it to practical problems like this moment? So I started, you know, kind of following my own advice, as it were, like pulling things from the research and I'm going, wait a second, people are seeing stress wrong. It's not a bad thing. It's not a good thing. It's not a bad thing. It's just energy. How do I use this energy that I'm feeling to point me towards something rather than just away from that relationship, that job, that...
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (07:36.653)
Right?
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (07:54.942)
that whatever. And that's really how I started on this journey. There's a lot more to the story, but that's good foundation.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (07:55.129)
Right, right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (08:02.763)
Yeah. So, so you've been doing like the, so what is the fearless masterclass? What, what is that? What, that you founded?
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (08:11.534)
Yeah. The, the fear less masterclass is a 52 week. It's like a full year of how to show up for ourselves. There's, sort of six chapters and it's divided into identity. So knowing yourself, recognizing who you are showing up, like in those moments where you're going, I think most of us can probably relate to the quarter life or midlife or three quarter life crisis of just going, wait a second, who am I? Why am I? What am I doing? What's my why? Um, so really knowing yourself, the second chapter is about
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (08:32.087)
Right.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (08:41.07)
understanding rejection and failure and how those play into our lives. The third chapter is really around stress and managing change. And then we move into imposter syndrome and then setting boundaries. And then the final chapter is actually my favorite, believe it or not, because it's a little woo woo. I, I hate the word manifestation. I hate it. I hate it. I really do because every time I hear it, I'm like,
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (08:52.717)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (08:57.805)
Hahaha
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (09:10.19)
like you're telling people to just like think about things and then they come true okay and right which I so get it I so get it because the reality is yes yes and right manifestation is is actually scientifically there's some science there and so
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (09:14.325)
Right. As I'm like, let's manifest that together, which I've said I get like a thousand times on the podcast.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (09:29.911)
Because if you say it, you acknowledge it and you start seeing it. Right, right, right.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (09:33.228)
And you start to see it and you look for it. exactly. So the, the sixth chapter is manifestation for skeptics. And it takes all of the science of manifestation and allows skeptics like, you know who, to show up and, and create a space for themselves where they are looking towards something, not just, want, I don't want that. What do I want? yeah. So that's the fearless masterclass and you know, companies go through it, as, teams, individuals have gone through it.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (09:44.451)
Right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (09:49.827)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (09:53.699)
Right.
That is that.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (10:02.958)
It's my life work, honestly, and I'm pretty proud of it.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (10:05.709)
Right. And you've had to put yourself through those six, you know, those six steps, I'm sure, and put it to practice. So what did you discover about yourself?
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (10:12.332)
Yeah.
such a good question. I think the first thing I discovered is, I had been playing it safe too much. because I believe that, yeah, I believe that, that everybody else had it figured out. I think this is a, this was maybe my biggest learning is. Yeah. Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (10:29.017)
How so?
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (10:36.633)
That's a big aha right there. mean, that's because say that again. I mean, it's it's it's hitting me. So,
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (10:43.182)
Yeah, I believed that everybody else had it figured out. And that I was the only one showing up struggling, not knowing the direction, not knowing the way not, not knowing any of the things that I needed to do to produce the thing that I wanted to do. And, and so one of the biggest realizations was, oh my gosh, nobody knows what they're doing. Like, like, we're all just kind of doing the best we can and making it up as we go along. And, like, some of us are a little more successful about
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (10:46.873)
Uh-huh.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (10:51.341)
Right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (11:02.745)
Yeah.
Right.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (11:12.334)
hiding behind the frame of like, of course I know, and these are the steps, and you just go one, two, three. It's like, for sure. Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (11:13.473)
Yes. Well, look at that. Social media has kind of done that of like, ugh, like the veil, like let's strip off that. But I had those moments too of, you know, I lived in the boardroom and you would get so intimidated of, these, they have too much experience. They've got all these like acronyms. And then it was my, aha, I think like after I started the, the bright was about five years in, I started recognizing of, my gosh, it doesn't matter what their title is.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (11:32.846)
Yeah. Uh-huh. That's right. That's right. Yeah. And I think because we know it and we think
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (11:43.373)
They really don't have an understanding of like marketing and branding and average like they, there is a lack of understanding but then that's where I come in, you know? I've just like, there's an opportunity, yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (11:58.67)
Right.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (11:59.854)
Like, oh, well, this is common sense. I know it. Of course everybody knows it. And the reality is, no, no, no, you know it, but like not everybody does. You're, pretty specialized. Like to me, I look around and I think this is what happens to adults. This is my, this is one of my fundamental beliefs. I think as we're growing up, we're looking at one another and everybody's learning everything at the same time, right? Like you're looking at JJ's riding her bike and she's learning how to ride. She's fallen off and I'm falling off and that's great. We're learning this together. And then we hit a certain age.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (12:02.125)
Right.
I
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (12:25.102)
Right.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (12:27.958)
And we don't see the failures anymore. We don't see the, the, learning, the trying the, the, you know, not playing it safe, the going in and like, oops, sorry, I screwed up. and so we believe we get this, this mindset that everybody else knows the things. And we're just sitting here going, I'm an adult. How did I become an adult? And I still don't know the things. and so, yeah, I'll never forget the first like CEO that I, that I coached and I was like,
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (12:30.563)
Yeah, they've been hidden.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (12:36.599)
Right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (12:49.752)
Right.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (12:57.874)
Really? you? I think I have some advice to give you. Like I do? How? How do I know something that you don't? and, and yeah, recognizing, I think that we all have these specialty areas of knowledge that, really are special. And so not knowing everything is actually a gift. And, and owning the piece that you do know and letting go of the other stuff so that you can continue to grow and learn.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (13:07.651)
Right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (13:14.669)
Yeah. Right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (13:26.967)
Right. So as you've gone through your challenge and reshaping how you show up, what type of business you're in, what's been the most challenging part of founding what you founded?
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (13:29.004)
You
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (13:41.762)
Mm.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (13:45.582)
I'm gonna answer that in two different ways. I think the most challenging part at the start was giving myself permission to do it anyway. Not knowing what I'm doing, to do it anyway, to start a little. I wanna give a shout out to Nathan Robinson, he's a creative in the area and he coined that phrase, I've stolen it cause I love it, start a little, just start a little. It doesn't matter where you're starting, but start a little.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (14:11.939)
Yeah.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (14:14.902)
and taking some of the risks that it required. Like I will never forget, you know, I'd been, I would say tumbling through life a little bit right after that moment where I blew it up. Yeah. And I was panicked, honestly. I was like, my gosh, you know, I'm writing a book. Yeah, I'm writing a book, but I'm like also not independently wealthy. And I'm like, I need to be able to pay for things. And yeah, I'm really like in this moment of scarcity going.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (14:26.201)
The moment of blow up.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (14:32.013)
What have I done? Yeah.
Right. I gotta, I gotta eat.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (14:43.554)
Shoot, what's my next move? And I'm applying to jobs and I'm not getting anywhere. And I know that I want to speak at this point, right? I know that that's my calling. And I get a job, right? I get a job and it's a good job. Like it's a job that I actually think I could have enjoyed and I have to make a decision. I initially I accept the job because I'm like, my gosh, this is what I've been working for. And yeah, I need the income, I need this. And so I think probably the hardest thing
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (14:49.954)
Okay.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (15:07.191)
I mean, yeah.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (15:13.814)
was to make the call back. And I called them back like within five minutes. I was like, hey, I'm so honored. I'm taking this in a different direction. And I hung up the phone like, my God, what did you do? But like, you know, really like burning the ships off the island. Like I'm, I am, I now have to make it because there's no other option.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (15:32.249)
But yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (15:36.472)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (15:39.474)
And I am not recommending that. That is not my recommendation. If you can do it, if you can build something as you have employment, great. That's a much safer route. But for me, that was one of the most challenging moments is to let go of the fear.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (15:41.945)
there.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (15:48.377)
Right.
Well, maybe you knew yourself to go, if you didn't, it would have taken you longer, because it wouldn't have been the hunger. Yeah, regret. Yeah.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (15:59.107)
That's right.
Scrappy, that's right. I created scarcity for myself and yeah, and it worked and I got lucky there I think. That's one of it. And I think the other piece, the other biggest learning or challenge was recognizing that I don't have to and in fact I shouldn't do it alone.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (16:08.622)
Yeah.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (16:26.182)
so speaking is one of those worlds that it's a pretty isolated industry, right? Like when I get hired to speak, it's me, like I'm, the keynote, you know, and then that person or that company doesn't hire me again because they've seen my stuff and it's going to be 10 years before we even interact again. and so it can be a very isolated, lonely space. But what I realized was the more I surrounded myself with other speakers that like,
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (16:35.193)
That's right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (16:42.745)
Right.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (16:53.954)
I didn't see them as competition. saw them as like, okay, we can build each other. Their community, right? A great speaking coach who introduced me to other speakers, great bureau agents, great marketing teams, right? My designer is incredible. Great book teams, right? The more I really leaned in and said, okay, this is my dream. I'm manifesting my dream. I'm putting it out there. I'm letting you see my dream.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (16:56.537)
their community, yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (17:06.349)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (17:19.821)
Right, right.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (17:22.744)
how can we get there? And how can I bring you along for this journey? And what part of it do you want? That became so much more powerful because it's now less about me and more about this impact that we want to create, we want to create. And that was a powerful switch.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (17:29.891)
Right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (17:42.465)
Yeah, that's a, that wasn't a challenge, it was like an aha.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (17:46.764)
Yeah, maybe the challenge was trying to do it alone for so long. I'm just like,
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (17:51.737)
Yeah, were there myths or like did you walk in there going I thought having my own business or starting this was gonna be this. Is there like myths per se? Be a myth buster.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (18:01.23)
my gosh, yes.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (18:06.734)
Here's my biggest myth. I thought being an entrepreneur, I was like, I'm going to give myself freedom. I'm going to give myself so much time. Yeah. And here's the reality is I have in a lot of ways. I have the freedom to pursue the things that I want to pursue. I have the time. I can sit in my, and I'm going to be honest with y'all, I'm wearing sweatpants.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (18:16.577)
Yeah, that's the ultimate goal, right? That's like, yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (18:35.735)
Yeah.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (18:36.268)
Like, you know, it's a Friday morning at 10 30 and I can have a podcast with a friend and stay in my sweatpants with my dog sitting on the couch. Like that's a gift and that is freedom. What I don't think I expected was I never turn off. Right. There was always something more to do. And, and that is a blessing in the curse. because I am passionate about it, it's a blessing. You can't, you can't, you can't.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (18:47.79)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (18:53.101)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (18:58.008)
Right.
Yeah, you can't turn it off. You really can't. I'm the same way and I think every founder I've talked to, it's like we just, there is no down.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (19:12.046)
No. And again, like with my research and with this stuff, like I love that. And I know that drives purpose and meaning for me. However, I have been a part of, you know, I'm a serial entrepreneur. There've been other things that I've done that have failed miserably. And I know why it's because I wasn't passionate about it. I was just doing it for the wrong reasons. didn't have a good why. And I just turned it off. like, I don't care enough.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (19:34.157)
Right?
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (19:38.969)
That's right.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (19:41.134)
It failed. So, yeah. Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (19:42.339)
Right, yeah.
What is something, I mean, you've done some self discovery and you're, but what's something that you really like about yourself that you wish other people would recognize more of?
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (19:49.166)
Ha ha ha ha
Hmm.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (19:59.278)
Oh, I was so good with the first part of that question. I'm gonna answer the first part. The first part, I think the thing that I like the most about myself is probably the fact that I bring joy. think I'm a pretty energetic person that brings joy most of the time to people's lives. So, but I wanna...
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (19:59.98)
Ha
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (20:06.412)
Okay.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (20:27.534)
you know, put a caveat around that because I think people recognize that I get that feedback, which drives me to do that more. So is there something that I wish people would recognize? I feel like people recognize, look, I'm in, I'm in an industry where if I do a good job at my job, by the way, people applaud me, right? That probably says more about me than, yeah. Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (20:33.079)
Yeah. Right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (20:46.573)
Right, right. I'm like, you're like, the spotlight is always on. Do you ever, but you're, I know you're the type of person, like I love being on the stage and doing speaking, but I'm gonna tell you, it wears like, have to go home and, because I love being there, it's a, because I'm speaking and I'm educating, I'm informing, that's what drives me, is when I get to open up somebody's perspective around.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (20:59.886)
Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (21:16.023)
marketing, branding, or advertising or whatever. But I know I've got to decompress. I don't get that sense from you. Like, I think you would go out and go, let's do it again. Like, where are we?
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (21:18.766)
you
wow. Okay, that's interesting. So that's interesting, Jay Day. That's probably the thing that I wish people recognized the most is yeah, I have a lot of energy and I do, I feel so driven toward teaching and being on the stage and creating impact for people. And the thing that I wish more people would recognize is I am exhausted most of the time. Like most of the time.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (21:46.061)
Really, so you do get, so like I have to go and be like if I've done an all day workshop with a client, I'm like I am noodle brain. And not just noodle brain, it's like it is, I've gotta do a lot, especially if I have another one the very next day or the next day it's like after I kinda get through that and do all that motivate to get there and I love it. It's like don't get me wrong, I love it. It's my calling.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (21:53.912)
Yeah. yeah.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (22:03.502)
Yeah.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (22:11.04)
Yeah. Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (22:15.021)
But then I can't talk to people for like three, four days after that.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (22:18.07)
I feel that I feel that I come off the stage and I won't like I'll be in a beautiful city somewhere. I will Uber eats into my hotel room. Seriously, and and and it's I have no problem taking myself out there. It's not that it's that I don't even want to make that interaction that effort to interact with the waiter or waitress like I I love people and I have to I have to spend that time taking care of myself.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (22:34.489)
That's right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (22:42.775)
Yeah, yeah, because everyone, because I hate event like network. I found a way to do it in a way that brings me joy, just easier. I wouldn't even say it brings me joy. I've just found a way of like, how do I take, bring my purpose into those interactions? Because otherwise, you see me, I'm usually holding up a wall in the back. Or I'm just like, you know what, I don't even want to go. Like it's, I don't look for.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (22:48.923)
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (22:56.12)
Mm.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (23:01.324)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (23:11.969)
those things. I know I need to do those for you know business and networking all that but but I found like when I get there and then I'm like okay I gotta do these things I love it when I'm there but then I'm like that was a that was I like I'm sorry Chandler I'm gonna have to cancel these meetings in the morning because I can't even think about
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (23:27.479)
Yeah, there's...
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (23:32.835)
Yeah.
Yeah, I think there's definitely, there's a want to and a have to, and this actually brings up a really, another really good point for me is showing up authentically is really challenging. And it's something that I try very hard to do. And it's something that I struggle to balance with the career that I'm in. Because you just, like, this is who I am. Who I am is ponytail and sweatpants, and you're gonna find me out hiking Swamp Rabbit Trail.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (23:44.761)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (23:55.149)
Right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (23:59.534)
Right.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (24:04.994)
usually with no makeup on, usually in a cutoff t-shirt and sports bra, because that's who I am. And I work with really large companies who have an expectation of how I show up and how I present myself. And would I shave my head and stop dying it? Probably. But there's a balance in maintaining that brand and that image as well. So yeah, maybe that's one of my...
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (24:29.507)
Right.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (24:32.492)
my challenges to you, think, as an entrepreneur is being the face of the brand.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (24:37.731)
Yeah, and yeah, I'm directly, and yours is, because Europe, you've got a brand, but you know, that a company brand that you're putting out there, but also it's tied to your personal brand. Yeah, yeah. How do you, how do you deal with that? Was that a challenge for, I mean, I'm scared, because, it's something that I had to evolve. It was coming from,
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (24:44.44)
Yeah.
It's me. Yeah, it's me.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (24:56.398)
Good question. That's a good question. Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (25:05.945)
corporate agency and a big agency. was like, was one that, you know, totally thrived in and I was so confident and I could, but I was under somebody else's brand. It was one of the hardest shifts for me mindset. And I felt the, the imposter, all that, the imposter syndrome, all that stuff. And I didn't think that was like a big aha for me. I didn't expect that.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (25:18.508)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (25:27.214)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (25:33.207)
Like I thought when I started the marketing agency coming from 25 years in agencies and I knew my purpose, I knew I could help a lot of other companies that couldn't afford a big agency but needed the same thinking. But it was like, whoa, it's all me. mean, even when, and it was one of the reasons I didn't want my name, why I made it bright, marketing, because I didn't want,
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (26:01.23)
That's so interesting.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (26:03.027)
I didn't want to be another one of those, and it's a known thing in our industry. If you've worked for agencies, became kind of a, another ex-agency person opens up their own shingle and it's, know, Sutton strategies, Sutton marketing, Sutton the, or it's like, if it's three people, it's, you know, Sutton Smith and Jones or whatever. And I just didn't.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (26:19.564)
Yep. Yep.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (26:27.842)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (26:28.353)
I didn't want to be another one of those. I wanted to create something that was bigger, one that was bigger than me, that didn't have my name on it. But also I was like, I was already struggling with it being attached to me and my personal brand. Maybe it was, I look back and go, maybe it's because I didn't really know myself, but I'm glad I made, like, I don't regret making that decision, but it was something that I was really, mean, six months thought process went through.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (26:35.448)
Yeah.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (26:57.519)
Wow. Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (26:58.729)
that journey for, for me. but it came as a real, as a realization, few years later, it was like, you know, I'm really struggling with like, where's my, where was the confidence? Where's the, I was like, where's me from, you know, pre bright, like where, like I was caught, like I had that, this like confidence and I, and I lost it all after I started the business.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (27:12.964)
Mm.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (27:18.932)
You
Yeah. So what was that? Like, what was that shift? What, what made you lose the confidence? it, is it because you didn't, was it a dollar sign thing? Like I don't have this big name behind me now, or was it more like an internal
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (27:39.275)
No, it wasn't because it was an all internal. It was the realization of, like I said, hindsight, kind of getting over that, but it took like three to five years after we were growing, like rapidly. But it was this intimidation of one, I thought, I'm walking into this, there's nobody, there's not another CEO that's like gonna,
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (27:42.968)
Yeah.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (27:56.942)
There's no safety net. Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (28:08.973)
the safety net of, and it was all on me. So those things, got hit like incredibly surprised by the amount of misogyny that I faced when.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (28:21.72)
I was just going to ask you, like, was there also an element of being a woman and saying, I have to prove myself?
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (28:26.329)
Well, not just prove myself, literally I was getting questioned in the business community of who's the men on your team that's gonna lift you up. Those were words that I received and I'm going into, you know, pitch new business or networking. Is your husband attached to this business?
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (28:37.038)
Wow, that's blatant.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (28:55.027)
And now, you know, he works for me now, but he wasn't at the time. And I was like, no. And it was when I bought our office building in 2014, it was when I and it was like it also that's where some of the ahas hit where people are, you know, these were CEOs. These were people that I had worked with for a decade or so at another company, you know, and they were like, you know, they were
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (28:56.686)
Yeah.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (29:22.161)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (29:24.857)
They were cheerleaders when I started the company. Like, good for you. You're really smart. You're the one that led our team. Do it, do it, do it. But I'm not ready to give you business. And it was a, I still have to prove myself. And so, and then it was like a year later when I, when we opened the, the, the building. It was, oh, like, this isn't just like a side gig for you. You're not just like the other.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (29:31.15)
You still have to, you still have to, yeah. Yep.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (29:53.881)
women we see in the marketing space, like you're a business. And I'm like, I've got, at that time I was like, yeah, I've bought a bit and I have 10 employees. I'm like, this isn't a hobby. this is my, and I was like, but these are people that had known me for 15 years in the business space. So of course it's like, you know, I'm two years, it just started to not.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (29:54.328)
Yeah.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (29:59.182)
Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (30:08.534)
Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (30:16.526)
That's painful.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (30:22.969)
Like it just knocks you down a little bit. And then and that was like, you know, a couple of years later was like my I have like, oh, these people really like I shouldn't be intimidated because I do have knowledge that they don't know that they've shielded themselves to let anybody else know that they don't know. But how do I build, you know, how do I use that knowledge to get people to, you know?
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (30:25.036)
Yep.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (30:36.732)
That's right. That's right. Yep, that's Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (30:51.865)
to build that trust. Cause I was like, I have advice, I have gifts, I have knowledge that they need that's gonna benefit them. And that was, you know, that was like 2017, 2018. But so, I mean, I started the company in 2013. So you look at just like that evolution and then, you know, you've gone through like the other valleys of, you know, coming up post COVID and this stuff. So I've kind of gone through, I call it the,
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (30:59.438)
Yeah, that's right.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (31:16.277)
Mm-hmm.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (31:20.717)
Someone told me that like the two emotions of being an entrepreneur is euphoria and depression. And I was like, my God, it's really flat line. You kind of go through the ups and downs. But yeah, those were some of my little ahas of not everybody knows. You do lose, like you've got to rebuild yourself. And I think we're a lot of founders and entrepreneurs where we find that commonality is.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (31:22.222)
I think that's spot on. It's rarely flatline, right? Yeah.
Yeah.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (31:38.894)
.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (31:49.547)
We've had to do so much more self discovery and self reflection. And I also think that even if you're not a founder entrepreneur, but you're at a CEO level, you're climbing. It gets very isolated, very lonely. And a lot of it comes on, your team doesn't like you. my God, they don't like me or they don't like the, everyone takes that accountability and that responsibility if they're a good business leader.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (31:54.477)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (32:10.862)
That's right. Self-awareness. mean, self-awareness is...
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (32:19.033)
You know, self-aware, like you've gotta go way deeper. We have found, like just talking through, and you know, we poll CEOs and founders and entrepreneurs, you know, that is the number, the themes that we hear more often. I find it fascinating.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (32:38.637)
This is, yeah, so this is a fun aside because it leads me directly to my biggest failure as an entrepreneur. So I founded a company called IQity and IQity, terrible marketing name, I know it's like IQ, like IQ and like emotional IQ, but it's spelled C-U-E. So like you're getting a Q and the whole idea behind IQity was exactly what you're talking about.
When you get to the top, don't know. It's really hard to get an honest reflection of how you show up in the world. And people are either going to be kissing up to you and telling you all the things that you want to hear, or they're going to be scared of you, or there's so many reasons. this company was an app that was a, it's like a 360 review that you could do 365 days of the year. And so you'd fill out.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (33:27.683)
Right.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (33:31.97)
three traits or things that you'd want to know about yourself. You'd rate yourself on a sliding scale, one to 10, and then you'd send it out to your friends, family, colleagues, whoever, and they'd rate you anonymously over the course of the next week. And so you get this constant like source of feedback. Here's what, and I thought, I'm like, my gosh, this is brilliant. Like who doesn't need this? Everybody needs this. And it democratizes this big thing that's usually an expensive thing for leaders and only the top get it. You can do that for everybody. Here's what I didn't count on. Two things. One, I didn't count on the fact that
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (33:48.974)
Right.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (34:02.03)
I as passionate about that as I was about 50,000 other things. I just thought, here's a need in the market. I'll just create something that fills that need, which is what I did. And then I did count on the fact that nobody really wants that feedback. People say they do, but there's so much fear in getting that, that there's this massive barrier to overcome. And only the very best leaders are going to say, I want that constantly, come on. And that's a rarity out there.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (34:05.293)
Right?
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (34:21.39)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (34:24.761)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (34:29.603)
Yeah.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (34:31.99)
Anyway, that was a massive leap. I mean, like, I lost everything. All the money that I'd made, gone. Just total restart on that. So yeah, huge failure. You wanna talk about euphoria? euphoria and depression, euphoria and depression. I'm gonna make everything that's gonna change the world. Complete depression, you know, yeah. Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (34:43.31)
Yeah.
One of those a failure. Huh.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (34:53.593)
complete that, yeah. And it's because of fear. Is that what got you to do, is that why you called it the fear less math was part of that or that learning?
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (35:01.71)
You know, fearless has been has been the constant theme of my entrepreneurial journey because it is it is not that it's not that we should be fearless. Don't jump into the cage with a hungry tiger. That's a terrible idea. Like that's just dumb. But when we can recognize fear, feel it and then just minimize it just a little bit. Just step back from it for a little bit and actually get a cognitive perspective of it and say, is this actually life or death?
Is this like, is this something that I really truly should fear? Rejection is one of those big ones, right? Like everybody's afraid of rejection, which is fair. Like you get kicked out of the tribe, you die like evolutionarily. That's a, that's a reasonable fear. But today you reject me and JJ it's got a heart cause we're friends, but I'm like, okay, okay. move on or okay. That's a, that's a fair rejection. What does she need? How do I, how do I approach this differently? So I get a different answer. And so it's really, um, you know, I, I, I.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (35:47.918)
Yeah.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (35:58.358)
I'm trying to remember, I think it was Desmond Tutu. Who was it? I'm gonna get this wrong. The quote is basically, I've never failed. I either win or I lose. I'm sorry, I either win or I learn. Right, I either win or I lose. And so yeah, I lost my train of thought there, but yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (36:09.623)
Yeah.
yeah. Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (36:19.447)
No, no, used to say like, no, we fail forward. And I've tried to not use failure in my vocabulary anymore, because I don't feel like it's a fail. We're just learning lessons. So either you're learning to win, or you're learning another way to do business, or to do world, you know, to be, yeah. And not yet.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (36:24.482)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (36:35.694)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
It's a not yet. It's a not yet. Not yet. The world's not ready for it yet. It doesn't mean you screwed up. It means it's a not yet. For you, for the world, for whatever. Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (36:49.204)
well.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (36:53.645)
Right. So, okay, so if you could change two things about your business today, what two things would you change?
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (37:01.912)
huh.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (37:05.71)
Gosh, that's a good question. What two things would I change about my business?
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (37:18.56)
Mmm.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (37:19.149)
hahahaha
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (37:21.676)
I would change myself, honestly, because I am the controller of my business. I think one of the things that I need to work on yet still is this idea of this scarcity mindset. Because I think as entrepreneurs, especially at the very start, and we talked about this, I created that for myself. And now as my business has taken off, I still am stuck in that a little bit. And so every opportunity I'm like,
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (37:26.915)
Also.
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (37:42.669)
Yeah, right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (37:49.272)
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (37:50.968)
my gosh, yes, let's do it, let's do it, let's do it. And my calendar is so full right now that I'm not taking time to like breathe and actually take care of myself so that I can continue to work on a long-term scale. And because I love it so much, that's right. And hold to it because I do, I calendar everything out. And then I'm like, well, that's flexible. I need to be better about boundaries for myself, right?
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (37:58.414)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (38:03.383)
Right. You got a block. You got to schedule stuff for you. Yeah. Yeah.
Right. Yeah, sure I can do that. Yeah.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (38:18.638)
So I think that's probably the thing that I would change the most for me. And then if I can do this for like an industry, can can I shift it to the industry? I think at an industry level, I would love to see more community in our space. And I'll give a quick shout out to impact 11. I'll give a quick shout out to, to power words. Um, or sorry, public words, um, which are two communities that are.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (38:26.349)
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (38:45.8)
are doing this that are trying to bring speakers together that are trying to help the industry overall, because I think at the moment there's so much speaker. I'm going to get in trouble for saying this, but I'm going to say it anywhere. There's a lot of, politicking and it's like, I'm, I'm going to, hi, I really love you. I love your work so much and, and that's not, that's not me. That's not who I will ever be. and, and I think it actually hurts the industry overall.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (38:46.807)
Okay.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (39:01.966)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (39:11.459)
Right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (39:15.193)
Mm.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (39:15.502)
Because the right people, the right thought leaders are going to rise to the top because they are the best. They be so good, they can't ignore you. And so instead of taking the time for us to all get better at thought leadership, we're spending too much time like seeking out event planners and seeking out bureaus and seeking out clients. And so that's one thing that I'm aiming to shift for myself and my business is sitting back and going, okay, look, I'm not going to be
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (39:34.777)
Mm.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (39:40.942)
Yeah.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (39:45.134)
you know, cold calling and doing all the reach out, I'm going to be so good they can't ignore me. And I wish we could have that shift for the entire industry, because I think everybody will be better served. So that's yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (39:50.253)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (39:55.713)
Yeah, that's a nice little aha nugget. Okay, so if we met a year from now, which, you know, it's like not that we met, but like we're gonna go out, I'm taking you out next January. What are we celebrating?
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (40:02.957)
Yeah.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (40:08.312)
Let's go. We are celebrating.
We're celebrating so much. We're celebrating the launch of my new book, which will be out. It's called Springboard. Yep. Yep. Yep. We're celebrating, I think more importantly, we're celebrating the massive success of this new nonprofit. Yeah. So my, my co-founder Lee Irwin, she's a local realtor here. She's incredible. And I.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (40:20.953)
All right, and that's called springboard. Is that right? Do I say that right? Okay.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (40:34.595)
So talk about that. Yeah.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (40:44.054)
recognize that there was this need for programming for women, athletes and, really the two of us are basketball players. started shooting around at the local YMCA and we're like, man, we miss this game. We miss this game. And every time we tried to find a place to play and, have, you know, consistent team, we'd get bumped around with, you know, there's a ton of guys that are playing and that's great. You know, I'm good for them, but there's not a space for women to show up and play and create a community.
And so we founded Game Changer, which is a community that has really three arms. We want to bring together women athletes so that they can lift each other up, find one another across the country so that they can play. Our main initiative is called Holding Court. And the idea behind that is that we're partnering with facilities that will hold court, they'll hold space two hours a week. It's not much, two hours a week for women to show up and play.
It creates confidence and builds leadership. And I can throw a thousand statistics at you right now about like, 94 % of women CEOs play the sport. This is so much more than basketball. I think we're building something right now that is going to create not just health and wealth and wellness for women, but a true sense of community and lifting each other up across the United States. So I'm really excited about.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (41:53.699)
All
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (42:12.107)
about that.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (42:13.593)
Well, I hope, I'm not gonna hope, it's gonna be. Next January, we're gonna celebrate it.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (42:17.58)
And can we just pause and like, feel a little bit guilty saying all this because Jen is on our board. She is incredible and has done so much for us in the marketing. And as I'm saying this, going, am I saying it right? Am I saying it right? Like, I know you gave me a better elevator pitch than that and I'm going to work on it, but thanks for letting me practice. Thanks for letting me practice.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (42:31.447)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (42:36.313)
Now that was good. me. Right. So let me. You talk about like the community and lifting it. Who is your greatest cheerleader? Your sister.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (42:48.694)
My sister. My sister. My sister. So I have a tattoo on my foot that says Fly Baby Fly. And we both grew up in a really small town, upstate New York. Shout out, Norwich. And...
I think I boxed my dreams for a long time to fit the environment that I was in. And she wrote me this incredible letter when I was just trying to figure out what my next move was. And she signed it, Fly Baby Fly. Basically giving me permission to leave that hometown, to get out and to live my life fully. yeah, I mean, I have so, I'm so lucky to have an incredible,
incredible local community here, like of really powerful women, honestly, and game changers. But my sister is the original game changer for me. She continues every day to support me, to cheer lead me, to push me to be better. Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (43:35.001)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (43:39.79)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (43:51.469)
We all need that, Did you have any unexpected cheerleaders? Like you were like, I would have never thought you would come to my court.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (43:59.726)
I love that. Do I have any unexpected cheerleaders? Yeah, mean, actually dozens, dozens, So many people have shown up for me in different ways that I didn't anticipate, including a lot of people that I have held in very high regard and I'm like, well, they're at this level and I'm way down here. So, you know.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (44:24.323)
Right.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (44:26.974)
can I please ask you this favor and like, and so many even without me asking have shown up, stood by my side and helped lift me. And yeah, I'm so, so lucky for that. Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (44:41.133)
Yeah. I love that question. that's a good one.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (44:44.352)
I did too. That's a great one. We don't give enough. There's a, there's a, sorry, I, I, I'm a speaker. I like to speak. Sorry. Abby Wambach has a, has a book called Wolf Pack and she talks about pointing. And I love this because in sports, like, you know, somebody does a great pass and you score a goal and you point back to the person. And I think so frequently we, we don't do enough pointing to all the people that have lifted us and,
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (44:51.619)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (44:57.304)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (45:03.097)
All right. All right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (45:10.893)
That's right.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (45:11.67)
I wish I could shout out a thousand names right now, because it's there's been so many.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (45:13.569)
I know. The reason I asked that question is that I found just in kind of my journey, I've had so many people I would have not, people that I expected to be my child were not. And the people that came to my side to lift me up, support me were really unexpected. And yeah, and they came by the dozens and stuff, but it was, it gave me moments of reflection and just, and gratitude that I have.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (45:26.132)
Right. Yeah, it's true.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (45:43.105)
Yes.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (45:43.681)
you know, and try to give back to them equally. And they're like, why are you? And it's like, you don't understand you when like what you did for me. They're like, I just, you know, I just gave you a call or I, you know, I took it. I was like, but the words, you know, that's right. And so, yeah, so I love I think if we just acknowledge, that's why I ask those questions like it gets us to it's to get us to acknowledge that.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (45:49.867)
and
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (45:59.832)
Give generously, don't keep score. Yeah, that's it. That's it.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (46:09.911)
Such a good one. Yeah. In fact, I want to take some more time on that question and really think about that deeply because that's, it's so important. I think writing, and this is one of my practices is writing letters of gratitude to people. And I don't do it as much. I don't do it as much as I genuinely want to. Not that I should, but I want to. So yeah. okay. Okay, that works. I'm good. I love that. I love that.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (46:17.901)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (46:23.545)
I need to start that yeah
Right, I do too. I give cocktails. Like, let's go out for a cocktail, give back. Is there a piece of advice that you've been given by another founder, another business leader that you really took to heart and it influenced the way you do business?
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (46:39.726)
For sure.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (46:51.318)
My grandmother. And she wasn't an entrepreneur. Well, yeah, she was in her own way. Her advice to me was don't let your options be your burdens.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (47:04.921)
Whoa, go grandma.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (47:07.566)
Right. I was struggling to make a decision and I had a lot of options in front of me and I wanted to make the right choice. I really wanted to make the right choice because it felt so pivotal. Which every decision is, right? Every decision is pivotal. And she looked at me and she said, honey, don't let your options be your burdens. Whatever you choose will be the right decision. And then it was simple, right? Because
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (47:09.707)
you.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (47:17.347)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (47:22.893)
Right, every decision, yep.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (47:36.822)
Because yes, you make it the right decision. And when you recognize, wait, you know what? This wasn't the right decision. 99 % of decisions in life are reversible. Or at least like you can pivot and take another direction. yeah, right, right. It's always the right choice. Always the right choice. As long as you make a choice. That's maybe the biggest right aside is like that cost of inaction is so powerful and so often neglected. Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (47:44.545)
Right. Well, there were there a lesson learned, right? I mean, you and you learn from those. And that's right. That's right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (47:56.344)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (48:00.811)
Yeah, no, that's good. That is good. All right. My favorite question of the whole show is if you could sum up your entrepreneurial journey in just one word, what would that word be and why?
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (48:16.756)
Come on, Brenda, you know what this is. The whole journey is summed up by fear less because there is always fear in this journey. and as long as I keep moving forward with a little less fear and really cognizant of the fear and why I'm having that fear, it's just very much. Yeah. Fearless. Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (48:27.011)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (48:38.923)
And then looking ahead, next chapter. Next chapter, what is that word and why?
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (48:45.711)
Game changer, game changer. Yeah, I mean, the next chapter is building community. One of the things that I have recognized in my own life is I'm so grateful to be given this chance to travel the world and influence people. But what that means is I'm away from my community a lot. And so creating community and changing the game.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (49:06.456)
Right.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (49:11.256)
for women in particular, think is so needed because we play a lot of games. We have to play a lot of games to get in the entrepreneurial space, to fit the leadership model. And it's time that that game changes. So I think doing more work in my community for my community, I want to be a game changer for others.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (49:17.55)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (49:23.885)
Right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (49:35.961)
What a great way to end. So amazed, I swear I love how these episodes, these shows, these conversations, they go so fast and I love every one of them. Yeah, it's like.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (49:39.566)
Hahaha!
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (49:48.174)
They do, they do. You have great questions. Gosh, I feel like I need like a whole day to sit back and like, was that really what I wanted to say? Is that true for me? I feel like I just went through a therapy session. Thank you.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (49:59.737)
I'm a curious person, I can't help it. I'm in a CEO peer group with several women that I went through a minority business accelerator with and we get together a couple times a month and they're like, and we have a text thread and they're like, okay, comes Jen with the questions. Here comes Jen with the, it's like I can't help it, I can't help it.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (50:04.108)
Forget.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (50:13.198)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (50:17.454)
That's great! That's such a gift! That is such a gift. I mean, if I could grant anybody, anywhere, a gift, it would be curiosity. The gift of curiosity, for sure. I love it. I love it.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (50:33.027)
That's right. It is my heart and soul. Well, thank you for hanging out. I appreciate it. It was a great conversation. Yeah. And for everyone listening and watching, thank you for joining us. This podcast will be available on all your podcast platforms. So subscribe to Hello Chaos. Give us a shout, a like, or maybe a five-star review on Apple or Spotify. We'd love to see it.
Dr. Rebecca Heiss (50:42.018)
Thank you. What a gift. What a gift.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (51:01.249)
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