What does bartending, the Marine Corps, and web development have to do with launching a sustainable landscaping business? Everything if you're Travis Holzem. In this episode of Hello Chaos, Jennifer “JJ” Sutton talks with the founder of Food Forest Design Minnesota about how he turned a lifelong curiosity with growing food into a full-time venture helping families and communities rethink their yards and their food. This is a story about building from the ground up. Travis shares how he bounced back after a failed partnership, what it really takes to scale a service-based business, and why resilience and self-reliance matter more than a pitch deck. He’s not chasing trends. He’s building a business that feeds people and challenges the systems we take for granted.
Key Takeaways:
1️⃣ Sustainable models can scale
Travis built a growing business by designing and installing edible landscapes, supported by a nationwide network of trained installers.
2️⃣ When it falls apart, rebuild smarter
He rebuilt his company from scratch after losing it to a bad partnership, proving that skills and grit are stronger than ego or paperwork.
3️⃣ Your business is your ecosystem
His permaculture mindset applies to entrepreneurship too. Founders thrive when they build systems that support life, growth, and collaboration.
Timestamps
00:00 Welcome to Hello Chaos
01:29 Travis’s path from military to marketing to mission
04:44 From bartending tips to a web design business
10:29 Building a better greenhouse and learning what not to do
16:13 Transforming suburbs with food forests
24:48 The business fallout that forced a restart
28:41 Launching a national network of permaculture designers
38:51 Creating a self-sufficient homestead community
42:19 Best advice for founders: “Leave your ego. Keep your mission.”
🔗 Learn more and Connect with Travis
Website: https://foodforestdesignmn.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/travisholzem/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/foodforestabundancemn/
X: https://x.com/MnFood
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (00:02.269)
Welcome to Hello Chaos, a weekly podcast exploring the messy and chaotic lives and minds of founders, entrepreneurs and innovators. Each week I have the privilege to speak with founders and owners across the spectrum, founders from different industries at various stages, from startups to mature businesses of all shapes and sizes across every single industry. Our listeners here, the raw, the real, the unfurnished,
stories and viewpoints, getting incredible insights on what it takes to start and scale a business, to become a better founder, a better owner, a CEO, or just a better business leader. Today on our show, we've got Travis Holzem. He is a water conservationist, I almost said conversationalist, conservationist and sustainability advocate and owner of Food Forest Design Minnesota. Welcome, Travis, welcome to the chaos.
Travis Holzem (00:59.51)
Thank you for having me to your chaos.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (01:02.53)
Yes. Well, let's start out like you've got a you got a whole big old resume. So start us out by telling telling our listeners, how did you start on your entrepreneurial journey? How did you start to to to basically start food forest design?
Travis Holzem (01:18.734)
Okay. I can go, I'll go way back. All right. I started, you know, after high school, I went into Marine Corps and you know, went over, went to Desert Storm. Found myself. I went into Marine Corps because I wanted, I didn't go to college for wrestling. I went into the Marine Corps and they have a wrestling team. So I'm like, Hey, I can get on their Marine Corps wrestling team. Well, it's instead.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (01:43.931)
Yeah.
Travis Holzem (01:46.528)
Nine months after boot camp, find myself on a ship on the way over to Kuwait. So not a confused, you know, 19 year old.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (01:56.511)
You're like, was this the plan? Was this?
Travis Holzem (01:59.832)
Yeah, never heard of the word Kuwait or Saudi Arabia or Iraq before, you know, because they don't teach that stuff in school. You know, there's no reason to really. So find myself on the ship on the way to a war and got through that, came back and I still got to wrestle in the Marine Corps afterwards, but just, you know, not. Yeah, there was a little detour and then I got out and.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (02:06.687)
Yeah. Right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (02:20.031)
Just a little detour. Yeah.
Travis Holzem (02:27.65)
Got involved in the bar business as a bartender and ended up running bars, a general manager and stuff like that.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (02:37.183)
Which, by the way, the Service Industry Restaurant Bar prepares you for anything.
Travis Holzem (02:44.479)
It's a different monster every single day.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (02:46.203)
It is a different, I waited tables to put myself through school. So I still use those skills today.
Travis Holzem (02:53.546)
Yes. It might be it's the easiest money you can make, but it can be the most stressful at times, But dealing with people that are drinking is quite the adventure. Everything is know, but that OK, I did this for like 12 years and at when I was 27, I had my my first kid, my son. So being in the bar business allowed me to stay home with my son during the day.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (02:59.187)
Yep, that's right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (03:05.532)
That's right.
Travis Holzem (03:23.764)
and raise him and then work at night. It was great to have my family help me out, my parents. And it was their first grad kid. So it was no, I didn't have to really call them to ask if they wanted to watch him. Yeah. They're like, can we watch him tonight? You had something to go do, you know? yeah. So and then I got married after that, had two more. And but that allowed me to stay home during the day. And
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (03:39.167)
That's right.
Travis Holzem (03:52.98)
In 1998, saving up my change from bartending, I'd throw all my change into a big jar. And after six months, I saved up $4,000. I was in a busy place, so it was really easy money.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (04:06.697)
Whoa.
yeah, I could tell you stories of how much cash I cleared on. Yeah. Football weekends in Indiana.
Travis Holzem (04:13.612)
Oh, yeah. you never can't, yeah. Can't say it too loud. IRS come and get you. So I bought my first computer and I wanted to be self-made. And so I started designing websites in 1998. That's when Google was born. So I started learning SEO, all that stuff in 98. Oh, cool.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (04:19.679)
That's right. That's right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (04:33.535)
That's right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (04:38.623)
from the beginning, yeah. I was one of the first digital media buyers in 1998, 99, yeah.
Travis Holzem (04:44.94)
And so I'm doing, so that was my, my career besides working in bars, you know, and then I had my kids and then I got out of the bar business and kept doing my web development. And then I had a small office and outside my office, I used to grow herbs and tomatoes and peppers outside my office. And
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (04:52.787)
Right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (05:11.999)
All right, like your little salad.
Travis Holzem (05:14.564)
Yeah, it was. I'd go out there every morning with my coffee and get a handful of whatever was growing and eat it, know. rosemary and basil and, like a hand sandwich, you know. And then when I was growing up, too, my mother had a garden in the backyard. And I was always amazed at growing things, how things would grow. So.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (05:27.401)
That's right.
Travis Holzem (05:40.202)
I got my own seeds because I used to love cantaloupe and melon and stuff like that. And instead of my mom buying them, like, maybe I can grow this. had her give me some seeds. put it in the ground in her garden. And next thing you know, about three, four days later, you get this sprout coming out of the ground. And just, I was always fascinated with it. And then next thing you know, a few months later, I have cantaloupes all over the ground and I got to eat them. So it was just.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (05:50.377)
Yeah.
Travis Holzem (06:09.953)
It just captured my attention. I always wanted, I knew when I got older, I wanted to have my own land and I want to be able to grow all my own food. Still don't have my own land yet, but I do grow, help people grow food. so, and when I was younger, I could ride around my neighborhood on my bike and go get apples and peaches and pears and everything in Columbia because
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (06:12.265)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (06:24.927)
Great, great.
Travis Holzem (06:37.697)
Everybody had gardens in their yard. Everybody was growing. And nobody does that anymore. So I'm trying to get people to change their minds and get back.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (06:40.041)
That's right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (06:43.795)
Right? It's like the homestead trend is like coming back. I grew up semi in an urban homestead. Looks like my parents were total hippies. You know, we had an acre garden. Our house was solar powered and wood. So, know, as much as other than I think water and sewer, we lived off the grid as much as.
But everything was, my mom ground her own wheat to make bread. was like, my parents used to say, if it was a barcode, was just, it was processed in plastic and everything had to be very minimalist to go in the grocery store. You only go around the outside aisles. You never go in the interior unless it's for like,
Travis Holzem (07:37.834)
Yes.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (07:42.237)
bulk baking products like sugar or flour or, know, but yeah, my mom would go to like the farm co-op to do like bulk shopping for oats and wheat and she would grind all that. it was, so that was what, that's how I, so no, but grown up in the 70s and 80s, not so much fun when you try to have kids, your friends come over and they look and they're like, what cereal do you have, my mom?
Travis Holzem (07:55.361)
Mm-hmm.
That's awesome, really.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (08:11.219)
my mom's made homemade granola. Or the only cereal that she would buy would be the jumbo bag of puffed wheat, do you remember, that you could buy in bulk? But they would put non-sweetened, yeah, everything, yeah, it was, because we had a beehive, so we had our own honey. We had everything except my dad refused to have chickens because he grew up.
Travis Holzem (08:20.801)
With no non-sweetened.
Travis Holzem (08:34.047)
You had everything.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (08:40.519)
In his childhood, he grew up in Kentucky on tobacco farms and he hated that, he was like, chickens are the grossest things, I'm never having a chicken. So that was, but they would barter with a dairy farmer and so we would have.
Travis Holzem (08:44.598)
Okay.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (08:59.781)
and basically unpasteurized milk come and deliver like fresh milk and eggs and then, you know, so it was like a total little barter system. But these were just neighborhoods like we lived maybe a mile from downtown in this little, you know, teeny tiny mill town in North Carolina. and, you know, my parents worked full time jobs and health care. So it wasn't like, you know, they were doing that was just it was just their way of life of.
Travis Holzem (09:02.016)
Okay.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (09:29.353)
Yeah, but.
Travis Holzem (09:30.144)
My goal is to get people back there, you know, locally grown food, everybody growing their food locally, because that's the way forward. mean, okay, now get back to how I got to this point. you know, I was doing my web development business and I have a chance to work with all different types of businesses building their websites, lot of startup companies. And in 2015,
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (09:38.185)
That's right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (09:44.167)
Yes, how did you get into food forest design?
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (09:53.395)
Yeah.
Travis Holzem (09:59.771)
a friend of mine down in Florida had he posted on Facebook a drawing of a greenhouse and it was a not your ordinary greenhouse. It was called a permacube and it never got to market. But, you know, as soon as I saw the thing, I'm like this everything came back to me, you know, about growing food and hey, this I need I need to everybody needs one of these in the backyard. Well,
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (10:14.056)
Yeah
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (10:26.068)
That's right.
Travis Holzem (10:29.085)
It was a greenhouse that would fit in your average suburban backyard. And it had a solar panels. It had a food dehydrator. It had a bio digester to make cooking fuel. It had a chicken tractor that you could attach to the back and you moved it around your yard. And it had. Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (10:40.059)
my god.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (10:50.045)
He needs to bring that back.
that back in the markets.
Travis Holzem (10:55.235)
And then it had 250 gallon water catchment tanks on the side. So you had the water catchment from the gutters on the greenhouse. And one catchment tank had tilapia for aquaponics. And that was filtering all the nutrients inside the greenhouse for everything growing with the aquaponics system. And the other one was for potable water. And it had a filter system as it went in. And also for watering.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (11:10.035)
Yeah.
Travis Holzem (11:23.951)
everything that was on the property and inside, you know, had a seating station and it just had, it was like a greenhouse on steroids. Yeah. So it could be a hundred percent off grid with this thing. And the moment I saw it, I'm like, Hey Jim, how the hell can I get involved with this? You know, and we started talking and I happened to be going down to Orlando for
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (11:25.801)
Great.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (11:32.671)
Like everything you needed.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (11:38.598)
Wow.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (11:44.797)
Right.
Travis Holzem (11:52.11)
a different company I was involved with in like a week after that. So I went down a day early and he goes, we're building the prototype. You know, so once you, when you're down here, I'll take you to it. So I got down there a day early, got my rental car, drove to Jim's place, picked him up and he took me to this thing and it was amazing. The most amazing thing I've seen. And well, long story short, it costs way too much to manufacture.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (12:14.846)
I am.
Travis Holzem (12:21.475)
It was like 25 grand. Yes. And like 25 grand just to get it made. and so when you tack on everything, just so you can make money, it outpriced us, you know? So we went back to the drawing board with some different configurations, different styles, and then try to franchise model. But the franchise model was too.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (12:22.643)
like over engineered for what anybody would, yeah.
wow.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (12:33.993)
Yeah, it's a.
Travis Holzem (12:48.261)
confusing, too much paperwork. know, nobody wants a 350 page document to go through just to be part of something. it just never, it's going to be back someday. COVID happens, you know? So my friend Jim, he's out of business down in Florida. You know, he had a little shop in a mall selling tabletop hydroponic systems and
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (12:53.278)
Right.
Travis Holzem (13:17.475)
central oils and all types of stuff. And he just said, Hey, it's time, you you, you take care of the, you build a website, you handle the back end of the business and, I'll do what I can down here. So I, know, and in my career as a web development, specialist, I also taught people about marketing and social media. And one thing is making videos. And that was.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (13:42.035)
Yeah.
Travis Holzem (13:47.596)
some of the hardest things for people to do is to get in front of a camera and make videos because they're shy. And I still have problems with it, know, like in the back of my mind, but I'm just like, F it, just do it, you know, who cares? And so I'm like, yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (13:53.704)
Yes.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (14:03.645)
right. I had to take that attitude a year ago because Tanner's like, get in front of the camera. like, no, I can't do it. It's not.
Travis Holzem (14:09.882)
It's not easy all the time, you know, and, and, but cause it you're, are your own worst enemy all the time.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (14:18.397)
That's right, we're judgy on ourselves.
Travis Holzem (14:22.106)
Yeah, so I'm like dude you got to make make one video on one subject per day, know until you get used to it and then Make as you come up with ideas make a video about it and post it and I did this with another friend of mine that I grew up with and My friend Jim we met in high school through wrestling. So we knew each other for a long time and a friend of mine Ben He's in Colorado now
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (14:28.5)
Yeah.
Travis Holzem (14:49.581)
did the same thing with him. ended up doing over a million dollars through his website. I built his website and he was in a network marketing space and he just, I'm like, make a video. What took me almost two years to get him to start making videos. But once he did boom, everything just took off for him. So.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (14:53.641)
Wow.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (15:09.075)
Now you're making me, now I'm feeling inspired that I need to do videos for myself.
Travis Holzem (15:15.393)
And you know, it only takes one video to hit, you know, and and before people start recognizing you and before you know it, you got a lot, lot of followers. And I'm like five people from hitting a thousand subscribers. So I'll give you my YouTube channel at the end, and subscribe. So here we are. He asked me to build a website. So we start, you know, he's walking around Orlando, Florida in his.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (15:19.231)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (15:33.459)
Absolutely.
Travis Holzem (15:43.959)
gated community and they have some nice ornamental trees, nice green lawns, but there's no life in them. And like, what if all of these lawns had fruit trees and berry bushes and all types of food producing plants and flowers and trees growing, you know, it'd be like the Garden of Eden, you know, and, and no poisons.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (16:02.857)
Right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (16:08.98)
Right.
Travis Holzem (16:13.004)
You know, and because that's why all these lawns, they might look great, but there's no life in them because they've been sprayed with Roundup and glyphosate and all this garbage and it's killed all the life. so that was, let's transform lawns into food forests and edible landscapes. And it took off from there. So I am five years into this now.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (16:24.116)
Right.
Travis Holzem (16:41.891)
And I still do web development because I do all my own web design and development, my own social media. do all my video editing and everything. So looking to get some investors so I can hand a lot of that work off and concentrate on the business part, because that's what I love to do. so, yeah, and it's.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (16:50.249)
Right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (16:57.183)
Right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (17:00.787)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (17:07.487)
What's been the most rewarding part?
Travis Holzem (17:10.997)
putting a food forest in a family with young children, putting a food forest in their backyard and knowing those kids are going to be able to walk out their back door at any day, any time of the day and go pick any type, all the different types of fruits and berries grown in their backyard or all the vegetables and those trees and berry bushes and everything come back every year.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (17:33.876)
Right.
Travis Holzem (17:40.744)
You don't have to replant them, you know? Yes.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (17:41.139)
Right? And just the education of what's edible and what you do put in your mouth and in your body. It's a part of the environment, it's nature, and I think there just becomes a full circle education about that. And the appreciation, yeah.
Travis Holzem (17:59.807)
Yeah. they learn. Yeah. And so they learn to be self-sufficient. And, and this is, this was in a, neighborhood with $750 million homes. Okay. And so, and they were right on the corner. So it was, I got both sides of their house. So I got fruit trees going this way or apple tree guilds on one side, and then like 20 fruit trees on the other side and then different.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (18:04.532)
Yep.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (18:12.062)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (18:24.606)
I bet that's so pretty.
Travis Holzem (18:28.309)
fruit tree guilds on the property and a hundred foot row of berry bushes of different types. So it'll be a big hedge going down. So instead of a fence along their neighbor's property, it's a row of berry bushes of all different types. I don't know, there's thing called a herb spiral. You can look those up with this. I built an herb, two herb spirals in their yard so they can have.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (18:41.695)
Hmm.
Travis Holzem (18:54.524)
Walk right down to the bottom of their stairs and there's all the herbs you need for cooking right there. Go snip them and go cook, but that is the most rewarding is knowing. That family is going to be for years to come. There's gonna be food everywhere and. And as I was putting this landscape together, installing it, all the neighbors out walking their dogs would stop and talk to me and. They were blown away like what?
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (18:59.101)
Right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (19:10.687)
Right.
Travis Holzem (19:24.329)
You know, like, wow, you know, I can't wait to see this. you know, when people don't realize a food producing landscape can be more beautiful than your ornamentals. You know, if you've ever seen an apricot tree bloom or a cherry tree bloom, you know, they're beautiful and they smell up the entire neighborhood, you know, and it smells amazing. And then you have fruit, you have food.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (19:37.609)
That's right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (19:43.767)
they're beautiful.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (19:50.601)
That's right, that's right.
Travis Holzem (19:53.757)
You know, and all the wildlife that comes back to your, to the property and it does everything. It brings back life and it feeds you and all your excess, you give away to your family and friends, or you can use your property to make money. You know, that's so there's so many different ways and capture water and like you, you had, you had off the grid solar and
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (19:54.207)
Sorry.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (20:11.807)
That's right.
Travis Holzem (20:23.218)
people, that's a great way to live, you know, and your parents were ahead of the game, you know.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (20:25.311)
That's right. Yeah. They were, I always said like, they should have kept it going. We ended up moving and got more into like the urban and we always kinda, I know my parents, as they got older, they're like, why did we do that? Why did we? Yeah, convenience and it's just, our society sometimes, the pressures and it was, they were so ahead of.
Travis Holzem (20:43.388)
Convenience. Yeah, that's.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (20:55.135)
of the trends and I mean.
Travis Holzem (20:57.106)
Yeah, and back in World War I and World War II, our government actually encouraged everyone to plant victory gardens on their properties. And there was over, I think, over five million gardens in the United States at that time, and over two and a half million tons of locally grown food. And then after the wars, that's when...
Roundup and everything started coming around and know, Masato and Big Pharma, you know, and yeah, so that's, and they ruined everything from there. And...
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (21:26.355)
Right, man, Sato and, yeah, yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (21:35.177)
That's right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (21:40.873)
Now I think the trend is coming back. Food forest, I like the food forest. Like your backyard oasis.
Travis Holzem (21:43.247)
Yes, that's the goal is a food force everywhere.
Travis Holzem (21:54.628)
And that's exactly what it is. know, permaculture, we design using permaculture, which is a design science. And basically what that is.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (22:03.657)
Yeah.
Explain to our listeners what permaculture is.
Travis Holzem (22:15.915)
It's design science that creates a sustainable human environment by mimicking natural ecosystems. Like, you know, you're combining agriculture, ecology, and other disciplines to develop a self-sustaining system, like you'd see driving down the road, you see all the trees and everything on the side of road. Nobody takes care of them but Mother Nature. Well,
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (22:41.225)
Right, right.
Travis Holzem (22:44.334)
I do that when I design a landscape. So you have everything planted, working together, synergistically, you could call it, know, and everything. Because people don't realize that plants and trees and shrubs and they all communicate with each other and they all benefit each other. Some things you don't put together because they...
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (22:56.02)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (23:04.041)
That's right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (23:08.479)
As I was saying, like you want to put some things together and they feed off of each other and others you want to not put together because it, yeah, they repel, but also how they pollinate each other and some attract the right mosquitoes that will aid the garden and others will repel the mosquitoes that you don't want around if you, yeah.
Travis Holzem (23:21.602)
Yeah.
Travis Holzem (23:34.317)
Exactly. And, and there's other, other plants like one called comfrey. That is, I put that in every guild that I put in the ground because comfrey has a very, very long tap root that goes down eight to 10 feet into the soil where your fruit trees and berry bushes, their root systems are shallow. They don't go very deep. So comfrey goes really deep and gets all those nutrients.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (23:58.665)
Right.
Travis Holzem (24:02.807)
from the soil and all those minerals and brings it into its stems, its leaves, its flowers. And then once it's full grown, you chop it down. Other than it being a pollinator or attracting all your bumblebees and insects and everything, you chop it down and use it as mulch in your guilds. And that adds all the nutrients to the top of the soil. And it's fast growing. So you chop it, throw it in there, and
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (24:18.089)
Right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (24:30.878)
Right.
Travis Holzem (24:32.694)
you a few months later, you chop it down again. So, yes, it's light, the cycle of life.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (24:35.817)
So it's this whole ecosystem that just keeps going. What's been as starting this business and ramping it up, what's been the most challenging?
Travis Holzem (24:48.128)
The most challenging. Well, this is, it's kind of a more than one thing, you know, but, I get the one thing that sticks out for me is being asked to start a business with somebody. And then, you had to be able to trust who you get in the business with. And, yes. And then what happens once the investment capital comes in?
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (24:54.387)
Yo out.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (25:08.157)
Yep. Co-founders, it's hard.
Travis Holzem (25:18.015)
you have to able to trust your partner. And I ended up getting screwed out of that business. So I actually started all over again, but luckily I have my web development background. also I rebuilt everything.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (25:31.805)
Right. You had the marketing chops to be able to just go, you know what, I know how to start this and start all over. But yeah, what would be the lessons learned of that came out that like, shit of, I thought I knew this person. thought, you know, was it just, you didn't really know them. You didn't have paperwork. It's like, we've heard all, like we've heard horror stories across the spectrum of
Travis Holzem (25:57.524)
That's one.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (26:01.449)
Like what would you have done differently if you could go back and rewind?
Travis Holzem (26:06.895)
I would have had more an ironclad deal on paper. I mean, I still had equity, but you know what? Equity don't mean crap at all. Especially, it just doesn't mean anything because you gotta, it's not worth anything if you're not gonna get anything back for it, right? And to this day, I'm still trying to get my equity.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (26:17.887)
Right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (26:28.371)
Right, right.
Travis Holzem (26:33.18)
back out of that company and it's been almost five years and millions have gone into that company and nothing's come back, you know, so it's never going to come. but one thing I did learn with building that company is how not to run a business, you know, and
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (26:42.375)
Mm. Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (26:49.663)
right because sometimes those are those are equally important of I don't call them failures I just call them you know you either have wins or you have lessons yeah
Travis Holzem (27:00.899)
And it was a big lesson. so trust the person you're getting in the business with, but I built the company. So it's easy for me to build it again. And now all those people that got screwed over too, because, you know, a lot of people paid money to be part of that company, but their money went into the ground at this person's property or in his pocket instead of where it was supposed to go into the business back into the business. So.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (27:25.097)
Right.
Travis Holzem (27:30.34)
Now I have a bunch of people that are coming to me now because I rebuilt a business and I'll talk a little bit about what I'm launching here soon. than, you know, food for his design, Minnesota, you know, so I'm scaling my business here, but all these, install teams and designers all across the country are now going to be joining my network was called food for his design network. So I can.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (27:40.318)
Yeah.
Travis Holzem (28:00.292)
design where you live, any, any state in this country, anywhere. And I can design, have designers now that are all over the country that have, they're even a lot more experienced than I am. Some have 30 years experience and those are my mentors now. Plus, you know, they get free work out of it, right? You know, I'm so now I am going to be the, the sales and marketing company.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (28:04.403)
You can go anywhere if anybody needs it. Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (28:22.195)
Right?
Travis Holzem (28:31.14)
all across the country and my installers and designers join my network and I hand them work designs and I hand them installs all over the we can spread.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (28:41.673)
Right. So it's like Angie's list, but it's Travis' list.
Travis Holzem (28:45.946)
And so to speak. And then I, and since I built this business from the ground up, I didn't have any mentors here in Minnesota, how to run this business. Cause I've never seen a business like this before. It was designed and installing food for us. So I had, put my own training system together on, I can take a regular landscaper or a plumber or anybody. And here, here's how you start your food floors, install business.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (28:57.833)
Great.
Travis Holzem (29:14.886)
Here's how you register your business with the state. Here's your business checking account. Every little thing from the start all the way through training you on how to do installs. And then you have, if you want to be a designer, a permaculture designer, there is permaculture design courses to learn that part of it. So because...
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (29:30.463)
I need to this to Pat.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (29:42.588)
Nice.
Travis Holzem (29:43.846)
It's a very addicting career, if you call it.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (29:49.225)
Well, because it was so tangible, so tangible and so close to home. mean, it's, because everybody probably would at least want to try a portion of it or something like, I just think it's so relatable for every household out there.
Travis Holzem (30:09.538)
And not just households, businesses, properties, everywhere. I drive around when I'm driving and I see this empty space. Like, I'm like, you know what I could do with that space or every, every, every city has a library. They have your city libraries, your County libraries, you have a police station, you have a city hall. You have all these properties in every city and all they have is green grass and.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (30:13.33)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (30:17.557)
Do you like, there's a lot.
Travis Holzem (30:38.713)
There's no life around you. And you, our tax dollars should be going to our cities and towns to benefit us, not benefit their rich friends, you know, and all that stuff. Because once our tax money goes to these people, it's well, look what's happening now. You know, we're finding out our money's being drained. So instead of, it needs to come back to the people.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (30:39.3)
didn't think about that. That's actually pretty cool.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (30:50.708)
Right.
Great.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (31:03.739)
Alright, right.
Travis Holzem (31:08.26)
that are paying the taxes, you know? you put a tree in there. Yes.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (31:08.671)
Right? Well, and they're already paying for landscapers and they're paying for the equipment. Why not make it so it's giving back to the community where if you go to the library, not only do you get to have free resources there, but then you can go pick berries.
Travis Holzem (31:26.613)
Everything. Yeah, everything. And you know, what kind of problems does it solve? Food insecurity is gone. If you have food anywhere, nobody's going hungry. And if nobody's hungry, nobody's committing crimes. So your crime rates are going go way down because people with full bellies aren't committing crimes. They're not out robbing people to try to get merchandise or money to go feed themselves. you know, and you have
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (31:28.287)
Like, why?
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (31:34.985)
That's right.
That's right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (31:43.091)
Yep. Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (31:49.704)
Right.
What's been the biggest aha moment for you during this journey of was it just the realization of this really is a huge opportunity, the timing is right?
Travis Holzem (32:09.794)
Yeah, I mean, I go to the gym every single day. That's where I get my ideas. I de-stress. I work. It's winter time. I'm behind my computer screen all day. I hate it.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (32:22.431)
All right, I know we were joking around like you're just going out and doing your cold plunge and just going outside.
Travis Holzem (32:27.808)
Yeah.
Yeah. And so all winter long I'm behind my computer screen because this is my sales time to get my spring and summer calendar, you know, scheduled out for the summer. So I get my way to get out of the house and go to the gym. But, and so I eat healthy. Well, if you look at our food today and like you were saying, you go to the outside parts of the grocery stores. Well,
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (32:36.649)
Get everything ready.
Travis Holzem (32:59.457)
Only 20 % of the food in a grocery store is actually real food. Everything else is process or ultra process. That stuff wasn't around when I was a kid, most of it, or if it was, it was made with real ingredients. It wasn't made with this fake garbage that they have, you know? And even our fruits and vegetables in our stores. Yeah, cause they could be coming from overseas or 1500, 1800 miles away.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (33:04.19)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (33:16.159)
That's right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (33:21.203)
You gotta be real careful where that comes from, just the same. Yep.
Travis Holzem (33:29.381)
And it's picked early before it's ripe and it's sprayed with a chemical. I don't care what they say, it's bull crap, it's not.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (33:36.435)
Right? it is, you better wash those berries.
Travis Holzem (33:42.017)
Because I know the company's doing the studies where companies started by the company that makes the poison, right? So they get their results they want.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (33:49.575)
right that's right well well it's no accident that what a pharmaceutical company owns the the pesticide companies yeah yeah there there's no accident
Travis Holzem (33:59.041)
Yes, bear, bear Monsanto. We get you sick so we can fix you. know, what, what, this is the one, what company has made pharmaceuticals for 150 years and hasn't cured one person, right? That's crazy.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (34:06.761)
Right. Right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (34:15.699)
Right, yeah, or let's see what, Nestle spends more money in lobbying to make sure that water is not considered a human right.
Travis Holzem (34:21.169)
we're free water.
Travis Holzem (34:29.564)
Yeah, we get it free and we're going to sell it back to you. But yeah, that's so. Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (34:33.214)
That's right. So yes. And no paid maternity leaves. Because they know if they get women back into the workforce, they will be forced to use formula. So those are the two things that they lobby for. Isn't that crazy? Yeah, I'm looking at Chandler. I know.
Travis Holzem (34:49.926)
Yeah. yeah, for sure. Yeah. And it's full of chemicals too, you know, poor, poor little babies getting this garbage, you know, instead of their mother's milk and, but all of the food. Go ahead. Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (35:00.029)
Right, right. go ahead, I'm sorry. No, I was gonna say, or goat's milk if you can't produce milk, goat's milk is actually more kinder to and most closest to a mother's breast milk than cow's milk. Yeah, yeah, I was, you know, I breastfed, I have four kids, I breastfed two.
Travis Holzem (35:17.694)
See, I'm glad you said it because I didn't know that part. I knew it was good, but I didn't know it was that close to a mother's note.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (35:28.251)
And I couldn't produce enough on the other two. My body just was ever probably in shock. I was older and it rejected. But I was like, ooh, knew cow's milk was not better. So I transitioned. What I was like, a farmer was like, no, goat's milk is actually the most gentle. And that's why like a lot of raw diets if you're into any of that. that's why I fed a cheese.
Travis Holzem (35:53.328)
Mm-hmm.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (35:57.159)
and pastry feta cheese fits raw diets and it's the only cheese that's allowed, like in one of those. Because it's, I don't know what all that but goat's milk is, is thumbs up.
Travis Holzem (36:12.196)
Yeah. Yeah. So all of this, the food system and the food that we are, that we, the only choice we have in what you get in your stores, unless you grow it yourself. So now the whole thing to me is we need food for us everywhere. When we bring food locally and start growing it locally in our yards, our communities, our public spaces.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (36:21.577)
Right?
Travis Holzem (36:41.712)
We cut out the poison producers. we, we, we, everybody's, yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (36:44.424)
Yeah.
Well, you know where it comes from. You minimize the carbon footprint, packaging, the plastics, the transportation, the fuel that gets there. And you're in control. You know exactly where it is. That's why it's like our rules in the grocery stores, just go, like if you need to go to the grocery store, you don't go to the inner rings unless you absolutely have to. Go to the...
Travis Holzem (37:13.883)
Yes. And also, yeah, and there's no chemicals. I will never put a synthetic fertilizer or any amendment in the soil that's not natural. that is no poisons, no chemicals, no herbicides, pesticides. So health is going to improve everywhere. Everybody's health.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (37:16.062)
the outer rings.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (37:38.131)
That's right.
Travis Holzem (37:39.781)
This food you're getting in the store, your produce, there's no nutritional value left in that. You know, they're picking it a month early. And the moment you pick that off the vine or out the tree, it's dead. There's no life going to it anymore. So it's losing every minute, every second it's off of that vine or tree or plant, it's losing its nutritional value. But when you have food locally in your backyard, you
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (38:03.827)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (38:07.753)
Right there, right there in your backyard. That's right.
Travis Holzem (38:08.901)
Pick it when you need it. So you're getting all the nutritional value. you know, so we're solving all these problems by bringing food back and food. Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (38:20.681)
That's right. The homestead food, the food forest, food forest, your backyard oasis. Travis, what, what would you, what would you be doing if you had no fears? Would you be doing this? Like if you had, you know, and you don't look like a guy that has a lot of fears, but I'm just saying like money, no money worries. Or if you like just no fears whatsoever, would you be doing this?
Still, or would you be doing something else?
Travis Holzem (38:51.392)
No, I would, because my plan is in the next year or two is to get 100 to 200 acres and build it out as a huge educational permaculture farm to teach people, to show people why it's the next logical step in humanity, you know, and also teach people how to be self-sufficient, grow food, but also
I want to create a off-grid community of tiny homes, you know, and people can come and live in a food forest. All the, everything's provided by the property and sell homestead lots. So an entire homestead community where everything is provided by the property, food, water, energy, you know, and just the most beautiful place you could ever live.
And also, I'm going to put a fitness center or wellness center on the property so I don't have to drive an hour to the gym every day. You know, I'll have one.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (39:56.361)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (40:00.457)
They're just have it all there. So is this like the vision, the big vision for your business where you're going? Are we manifesting this right now?
Travis Holzem (40:11.383)
Yes, this is yes and I actually have been starting to draw up my plan, you know, my visual plan for the property and then working on a business plan so I can attract a wealthy investor to get this done.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (40:29.459)
Yeah, so if we met a year from now, would we be celebrating the groundbreaking or is there something else that we'd be celebrating a year from now?
Travis Holzem (40:41.219)
We're going to be celebrating the groundbreaking. That's yeah, that's that's going to happen. Yeah, and. Yeah, and you know that is my vision and that will also allow me to have my own nursery on my property. So all the trees, everything I'm putting into my landscapes here in Minnesota. I will be able to actually grow everything on the property.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (40:44.692)
ground.
All right, we're putting it out there right now. Manifest it away.
Travis Holzem (41:09.953)
And then I'm not searching for it at all the nurseries around town trying to find this tree or that tree. everything will be provided by the property itself, which will save my stewards money. It will save the homeowner money. Then everything. And that's just, nature provides it all.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (41:13.684)
Yeah.
You're just.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (41:23.069)
Right. Travis List, all of your network.
That's right. All right, so if you could sum up your entrepreneurial journey in just one word, what word would that be?
Travis Holzem (41:46.397)
Sustainability.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (41:47.921)
Yeah, it's a good word. All right. And if we had to look ahead to the next chapter, what word defines that next chapter?
Travis Holzem (41:58.784)
Resilience.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (42:01.363)
There you go. Sustainability and resilience. You got it. You got this. Your journey is on fire. What's the best piece of advice that you've received from another founder, another business owner that you really took to heart that you could share with our listeners?
Travis Holzem (42:19.21)
Wow, I mean...
Other than finding people that you trust to work with, know, find people that are like-minded and have the same goals and mission as you do, is just don't give up. You know, I mean, you're going to get kicked in the teeth every day, you know, but like I listen to music when I'm working out and sometimes I listen to motivational, heavy-hitting
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (42:39.487)
That's right.
Travis Holzem (42:51.86)
music for working out, it has motivational messages in it. You and what is it, you you might fail a thousand times, but you're learning a thousand different ways not to do something.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (42:55.603)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (43:02.239)
You just.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (43:07.391)
That's right, you just keep going. Just keep moving forward. I think that's what make founders special and entrepreneurs, we're a unique breed that way of we just keep going. We have a, we have a,
Travis Holzem (43:08.989)
Yeah, you know.
Travis Holzem (43:21.687)
And don't let your ego get in the way and think you are more than what you really are, you know?
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (43:25.727)
that's a good piece of advice.
Travis Holzem (43:30.487)
Cause I noticed that, you know, in when I built that other business, you can't think you are better than your business and everybody that is working with you. You know, once you put yourself above the business, you're, done. You're no one's going to trust you anymore because you know, it's not about your mission anymore. They make it about themselves instead, you know,
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (43:40.959)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (43:52.927)
Right. That's right. You've lost the brand, right?
Travis Holzem (43:57.343)
Yeah, you and you've lost the mission, you know, because permaculture is a certain earth care, earth care, people care, fair share, you know, and, know, without that, you know, you lost. You're going to wither, your plants are going to wither and die, you know.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (44:00.137)
That's
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (44:09.033)
That's
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (44:15.282)
Right, exactly.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (44:19.741)
Yeah, you need to treat yourself and your business the same way you would a plant that you have in your yard. You've got to you got to nurture it. You got to soil it. You got to, you know, you got to treat it nice, water it, trim it when you need to. It is. And we need to that as ourselves as kind of like check ourselves as the owner and founder to make sure that are we still on point? Like, am I getting it the right sunshine?
Travis Holzem (44:25.696)
Yes.
Travis Holzem (44:36.012)
Yes.
Travis Holzem (44:48.252)
Exactly. There's all those different factors that come in, just like deciding a property, you have everything and you got to make sure you're giving them all the same attention.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (44:49.331)
Yeah, that's right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (44:59.081)
That's right, that's right. well, this has been fantastic. I can't believe how fast these conversations go. Before we go, how do you want people to get a hold of you, learn more about what you're doing, support you in any way? Travis, give us all of your stuff.
Travis Holzem (45:16.061)
All right, if you are looking to design your property, like I said, I can design anywhere in this country. Okay. I have designers everywhere. We can do it virtually or else someone could be on site at your property. You can find me at food forest design, Minnesota.com and that is Minnesota spelled out or abbreviated MN.com. Both of them. They both go to me and you can find me on YouTube at the same food forest design, Minnesota.
I'm just about hitting 400 videos on there.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (45:49.535)
I'm gonna watch some of those. We're gonna make your 5,000 subscribers.
Travis Holzem (45:54.133)
That'd I'd love to hit 5,000. And, yeah, and then same on Facebook and Instagram. And then on LinkedIn, it's just Travis Holcomb. And also, you know, if anyone might not be interested in getting a food forest, but if you're interested in what I do, I have an affiliate program on my website. You can sign up and you can spread my message, spread my mission.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (45:56.639)
Let's go.
Travis Holzem (46:24.318)
And when somebody comes to me and buys a design service, my design services, you'll get a commission off of it. So, you know, everybody wins. You help spread my message and you make a commission. It's, know, everybody wins.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (46:39.327)
It's like our own sustainable food forest ecosystem. That's right. Let's make it happen. Thank you, Travis. This was a fantastic conversation. I loved hearing about your journey and your background and what you're doing. I think it's really important and certainly a trend that is, think we're just starting to see the beginning of it. It's not even nowhere near peak yet.
Travis Holzem (46:43.419)
Ecosystem. Yes.
Travis Holzem (47:02.122)
Yes.
Travis Holzem (47:08.501)
No, it's not. It's slowly ramping up and every podcast I get on, that's what's happening.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (47:23.298)
Give us one second, Travis.
Travis Holzem (47:24.882)
Okay.
Travis Holzem (47:29.139)
I can hear you.
That's okay. Okay.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (48:01.262)
Sorry. My stupid microphone wire popped out. So I apologize. We're back in. That's right. So I was just saying, we'll just edit that little tech part out. But no, just think it's we're just starting the homestead, kind of this whole food, bringing it back under kind of our.
Travis Holzem (48:02.96)
totally okay.
Travis Holzem (48:09.075)
That's okay. It makes it fun,
Travis Holzem (48:23.566)
Good.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (48:31.03)
our control. So I'm excited to watch your journey.
Travis Holzem (48:32.944)
And every podcast I get on and every host is like, wow, I love this. know, and a lot of them have never gardened or done anything like that before. So it's just nice to be able to reach people that have no clue that hear about it. And then they're like, wow, yes, this is the way for them.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (48:42.979)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (48:48.792)
Yeah. Well.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (48:56.514)
That's right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (49:00.91)
I think that that's what this this will do and especially our community of other founders and stuff. think the affiliate nor just like, this is a cool business idea. Let me spread this word. So I think this is this was fantastic.
Travis Holzem (49:15.362)
If there's any wealthy listeners out there, I'm looking for an investor to scale this business. So hit me up.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (49:18.766)
Here. That's right.
Let's make it happen. Let's make it happen. And we'll tag everything for you when we when we publish the episode. So thank you, Travis. And for everyone listening or watching us, thank you for joining us today. And this podcast, of course, is available on your favorite podcast platform. So subscribe to Hello Chaos. Give us a five star review on Apple or Spotify. Share this great content and help us build a more connected entrepreneurial community.
Travis Holzem (49:34.906)
Thank you.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (49:54.466)
Hello Chaos is one of the many resources brought to you by OrangeWIP. That is OrangeWIP, W-I-P for work in progress, because that's what we all are. OrangeWIP is a multimedia company dedicated to serving founders and entrepreneurs in affiliate cities. We've designed hyperlocal media platforms to inform, inspire, and be the independent connective tissue between founders and their local entrepreneurial ecosystem.
We're in three South Carolina markets today, looking to expand to other markets in the coming year. Our innovative digital zines are an all-in-one content hub. We tell fresh and engaging stories, much like Travis's. We curate local calendars, so the local events, the incubator and accelerator signups, the grant opportunities. All those are curated into one event calendar.
We also do local dynamic roadmaps of all the resources that are pretty much free for all entrepreneurs and founders in a market. We do that in an easy to navigate resource directory. So again, we take all the hard work for all the work out for the founders and they go into one trusted source to find the information they need. If you'd like to be a guest on our podcast or support us, send us an email to hello at orangewip.com.
Thank you for turning in to Hello Chaos. It is where ah meets oh shit and we will see you again next week.