Cat Dunn didn’t just start a business. She claimed her power. Jennifer Sutton sits down with Cat to explore how entrepreneurship became her way out of a coercive relationship and into a life built on purpose, control, and impact. She built a coaching and online business management company from the ground up while navigating mental health recovery, housing instability, and the emotional weight of starting over. Her story covers the real business challenges most entrepreneurs face but rarely talk about. Cat also opens up about owning her identity, her deep connection to the horror community, and how authenticity fuels every decision she makes. This conversation speaks directly to founders who are building with heart and leading with truth.
Key Takeaways:
1️⃣ Your Business Can Be Your Escape and Your Empowerment
Cat Dunn’s story is a powerful reminder that entrepreneurship can be more than just a career. Starting her business became the first step toward freedom from an abusive relationship and the foundation for reclaiming her identity and power.
2️⃣ Authenticity Isn’t Optional. It’s Your Edge
Whether it’s horror fandoms or espresso martinis, Cat emphasizes the power of showing up fully as yourself. In today’s founder landscape, personal quirks and genuine values aren't liabilities. They’re branding gold.
3️⃣ Failure Is the Fuel
From losing nearly everything to rebuilding both personally and professionally, Cat’s journey underscores the importance of viewing failure not as defeat but as a necessary step in the entrepreneurial process. Resilience isn't just a trait. It's a strategy.
Timestamps
00:00 Welcome to Hello Chaos
01:26 Cat Dunn's Journey to Entrepreneurship
03:50 Transitioning to Online Business Management
05:03 Overcoming Domestic Violence Through Business
06:48 Understanding Coercive Control
10:28 Empowering Women Through Coaching
11:59 Embracing Authenticity in Business
15:49 The Power of Community in Horror
20:51 Favorite Horror Films and Characters
22:10 Building a Supportive Community
24:09 Overcoming Personal Challenges
26:29 The Journey of Self-Discovery
28:10 Aspirations for Impact
29:21 Creating Change Through Storytelling
31:02 Manifesting Future Success
31:49 Defining the Journey
32:38 Embracing Failure as a Teacher
35:41 Authenticity in Coaching
37:56 The Power of Unique Personal Branding
🔗 Learn more about Cat and Cat Dunn OBM with the links below:
Website: Cat Dunn OBM | Get my brains on your business
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/catlouisedunn/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/catlouisedunnd
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (00:01.548)
Well, welcome to Hello Chaos, a weekly podcast exploring the messy and chaotic lives and minds of entrepreneurs, founders, and innovators. Each week, I have the privilege to speak with founders across the spectrum, founders from different industries at various stages, from startups to mature businesses of all shapes and sizes. Our listeners get to hear the real, the raw, the unfurnished viewpoints and stories, getting incredible insights on what it takes to start and scale a business.
become a better founder, better CEO, or just a better business leader in their community. Today on our show, we have Cat Dunn, speaker, author, and founder of Cat Dunn OBM. Welcome, Cat, welcome to the chaos. How are you?
Cat Dunn OBM (00:47.034)
Thank you, So much for having me. I'm good, thank you. How are you?
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (00:50.126)
I'm very good and you are calling out of Melbourne, Australia, right? And we were just, I'm like, it is early for you. Thank you for joining us from across the globe. Well, start us out. Tell us how, how did you get into, you know, aspiring to start your own business, go out on your own? How did it all start?
Cat Dunn OBM (00:54.096)
Yes.
Very.
Cat Dunn OBM (01:17.36)
think like many people it was actually the COVID pandemic because I had moved to Australia and I was struggling to get a job because of visas etc and then COVID hit so I was basically competing with every single person in Australia to try and find a job and when I did find a job obviously I had to work from home and from corporate backgrounds it was very desk based.
And I really started to fall in love with the idea of, I make my own schedule? Can I work from home? Can I do something that's just mine? Is that possible for me? Particularly because my dad's had his own business for years, but I've never really thought about doing it for myself. So I was talking to friends about how could I do this? How could I extend on my own two feet without having to go back into corporate once the world kind of opened back up?
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (01:49.826)
Yeah.
Cat Dunn OBM (02:06.48)
And somebody said, well, you're currently working as an executive assistant, yeah? And I was like, yes, that's correct. And they said, have you heard of virtual assistants? And I was like, what on earth is a virtual assistant?
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (02:10.51)
All
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (02:16.75)
Eh.
Cat Dunn OBM (02:17.262)
And so I started going down this big Google rabbit hole to find out what a virtual assistant was. Realized I had very transferable skills. I just didn't know the business side of it. How do you set up Airbnb? How do you set up invoices? How do you do all those things? That was the panic for me. So I met with a few different coaches who specialized in working with virtual assistants. Found one I really liked, joined her program, learned all the business side of it.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (02:27.747)
Right.
Cat Dunn OBM (02:43.224)
And as I was learning, actually got my first client before it even secured my insurances and secured my fees and everything like that. So I kind of got the clients and then had to build all the business stuff in the backend. So that was basically how I started.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (02:57.77)
Okay. And then I saw that you're now you do your keynote speaker and an author. How did you like what what inspired that? Like what was that journey?
Cat Dunn OBM (03:11.898)
So I was a virtual assistant not for very long and I realized that I was taking on a lot of plans, which was great, but it was very task-based. And my brain doesn't really just think on get things done and then move on. I'm always strategically thinking, future thinking, forward thinking. So I stepped into the online business manager space because then I could be a bit more across the entirety of someone's business and think about how I could really make their dreams come to life from a practical project management strategic base.
So I moved into that space, took on fewer clients and worked longer term with people so I could really dig into how I could make their business have more impact worldwide because that's what a lot of people want to be doing. And I've been doing this for a few years and that's still not quite enough for me. I feel like a lot of us feel like we're really here to change the world and do amazing things. And I really wanted to think about how I could help more people and how I could have more impact.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (04:01.741)
Yeah.
Cat Dunn OBM (04:08.664)
because at the moment it's very one to one. And so I decided to create my own community, my own events, and I started sharing my story that a lot of people don't talk about in terms of people say why they started their own business, such as they want to create their own schedule, they want to pick up their kids from school.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (04:26.968)
Right.
Cat Dunn OBM (04:28.366)
But mine was more like I was actually a victim of domestic violence. And it was my business that actually got me through that relationship and helped me see the light at the end and pulled me out of it. And now I want to be able to share my story so women in similar situations can see that there is light at the end the tunnel. Exactly. So I was like, how can I do that on a bigger scale? And that's why I started sharing my story and stepped into the speaking space.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (04:44.622)
So it became like a survivorship of, yeah, okay.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (04:54.584)
So and how's that been? I mean, has it been?
accepting and have people really embraced that topic and because I know that's like that's a hard topic to talk through.
Cat Dunn OBM (05:11.76)
It's huge and that's what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to change the idea of like we kind of talk about this. This is triggering, this is upsetting because it absolutely is. know, in Australia alone it is absolutely...
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (05:19.416)
Mm-hmm.
Cat Dunn OBM (05:24.752)
unbelievable the amount of violence that women are experiencing on the daily. My mission is to make it where we talk about it, where it is quite normalised. Normalised to talk about obviously not the behaviour because if you think about mental health we didn't talk about that 20 years ago particularly for men, men were not allowed to talk about it.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (05:36.653)
Right.
Now, and now it's like the biggest topic in foundership and entrepreneurship. Yeah, it is.
Cat Dunn OBM (05:44.854)
Exactly and it's you know you could take a mental health day you can actually talk about go to therapy and I think it's the same for many topics particularly for women so as I've started to share my story it's been largely positive because a lot of women obviously cannot share the story too scared to share the story or are in those situations and like need to know that there is something else beyond this if we do leave.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (05:52.92)
Mm-hmm.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (06:01.325)
Right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (06:06.764)
Right? can find independence. Is that kind of the biggest thing? It's like they don't have to feel like they're trapped.
Cat Dunn OBM (06:14.704)
Absolutely, there's so many different elements to it, the way I tell my story is well because I've had several of these relationships unfortunately, but my last one, the worst one, was coercive control, which people still don't really understand because a lot of the times they hear the word violence and then they think, oh physical, so he's hitting you. I'm like, no, no, no, he did something way worse. How can anything be worse than that? I'm like, let me tell you about coercive control.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (06:42.84)
What is that?
Cat Dunn OBM (06:45.242)
So coercive control is basically emotional manipulation. It's gaslighting. It's anywhere that they're to control any aspect of your life. So this can look like being told what you can and can't wear. It's being told who you can and can't be friends with. It's telling you when you're allowed to leave the house, where you're allowed to go to. If you do go out, maybe they control, you know, they're ringing you all the time. Or for me, I had to do Instagram stories to show where I was. So he could see where I was every time of the day.
It might be a case of they are asking to see your phone. They want passcodes to your phone. You can't see theirs, obviously, but they want to see yours. A lot of it is financial abuse. You know, can't be in control of your own money. They manage the finances. You can't have access to anything in order to be able to leave.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (07:22.776)
Right?
Cat Dunn OBM (07:31.35)
And usually there's a lot of accusing you things you didn't do because it's a way to so confuse your brain and manipulate you that you start to believe that you have done something wrong and you do everything on your power to make them happy again. So usually it's, it's a projection of their bad behavior. They're going to perceive you like, you're cheating on me or you've done this. When actually it's them behaving that way, but they're so insecure. They project that onto you just to make you feel so small and make you into such a victim. They basically can do whatever they want with you.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (07:45.752)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (07:52.632)
Right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (08:02.432)
Unbelievable. I mean, it's like narcissistic narcissism at its at its worst.
Cat Dunn OBM (08:08.976)
Yes, absolutely. lot of analysis to behave this way.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (08:12.684)
Yeah. So, so really, I mean, when you started the online business, this was like your it was your path to freedom.
Cat Dunn OBM (08:21.328)
So you said that my whole body like felt that. think, yeah it was. the thing is I didn't realize that at the time. I just thought, oh cool, I can work from home. I can wear my pajamas. I don't have to worry too much. But then I started to realize that I'd get up really, really early in the morning so I could go to work and connect with people and do tasks and be involved in other people's lives. So I could basically escape my own for a while. Cause it was the one area he couldn't control because basically I had to work and I had to get money and this is what I was doing.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (08:23.864)
Heh.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (08:30.435)
Right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (08:47.683)
Yeah.
Cat Dunn OBM (08:51.246)
And the more I did that, the more I saw glimpses into other people's lives and realized, could I, could I, it was almost like a skip through a screen before I could just get physically.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (08:57.358)
Can I do that?
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (09:00.972)
Yeah, so what's been the most rewarding part of your journey?
Cat Dunn OBM (09:07.962)
So it's twofold. terms of within my business, I've supported the most incredible women to basically coach. Because what I like to do is I like to work with coaches because coaching is what saved my life, is what taught me that I could actually leave and have a better life. So I take on the things.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (09:22.296)
Right. So much power inside of us, but how do we extract that? Yeah.
Cat Dunn OBM (09:27.118)
Yeah, exactly. Because I love systems, I love processes, I love the data side, and a lot of coaches don't really like that. So if I could take that off their hands and give them more time to coach women, and then they get to change their lives and they're going to impact their families, it was at this domino effect and that was so fulfilling. And then on the other side, as I've started to put on my own events and speak about my experience, I've actually witnessed other women leave these abusive relationships and set up their own life, which is just incredible to me.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (09:55.852)
Yeah, so you're helping others find their own freedoms and their own joy. I love that. So what's something that you really like about yourself or that you've discovered about yourself that you wish other people would really recognize more?
Cat Dunn OBM (10:00.546)
Yes, yes.
Cat Dunn OBM (10:17.963)
That's a very good question. I was talking about this the other day that I feel like when you've been in a relationship or a situation and this could be any situation work or a relationship with a friend where you dim your light or you make yourself smaller or you change things about yourself to make the person happy that's I'm just really hard to find those aspects again.
And my biggest thing might sound very strange is that I'm really weird. I have strange interests, have strange hobbies, I come out with the weirdest things. My brain works slightly differently to everybody else. And it was that thing of like being able to confess all the weirdness about me. Because if you see behind me, like I'm a huge horror fan. I've been watching horror since I was seven years old. I write about horror, I go to horror conventions. I idolize people in the horror industry. And that's really strange.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (11:07.47)
Oh, we're gonna have to talk about, we're gonna have to have like a sidebar on that one. I need more of that information. But keep going, we'll get back to that.
Cat Dunn OBM (11:09.424)
I was telling you.
But like in the business, tried to bring in like, can I bring in more aspects of me? Because I've, you know, I'd gotten rid of parts of me for so long that it was this thing of recognizing that someone could be very weird or have a strange interest, but they can still be damn good at their job. And it's that thing of recognizing like I have to accept all of me. My business is, and my brand is me. And I bring every single part of it. And if you don't like some of it, that's absolutely fine. I'm not for everybody, but don't tell me you cut away parts of myself again, because I just can't do it.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (11:27.928)
Yeah. Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (11:46.254)
Right, well I think that's fine that you, know, we saw that trend, I wanna say like a decade ago of you had in the founder space, but also just I would call it like executive leadership of people would have two separate Instagram accounts or Facebook accounts of like, well this is my professional account, this is my home one and I think, you know, I never had that, I was like, you know, one, I was like, I have one. It's me, it's all of me.
You know, and I would get advice a decade ago, like, Jennifer, you need to separate those. And I was like, why? was like, why do I need to have a professional account versus a personal one? Because I don't, if I'm sitting in and working with a client, they need to know it's all of me. Why would I want them, you know, and I think I should know and have a good enough discernment and a filter to,
not put anything that's objectifying or on any account. So now I've seen all these same people that were given that advice a decade ago, they're all now merging and dropping one of the accounts. Because one, it's just time consuming. Like who wants to upkeep multiple, that's hard enough.
But it's interesting, I think that I'm seeing that more and more, and we help, like on the marketing side. We've been helping a lot of CEOs and founders develop what I call an executive playbook, their executive personal brand style guide of it does need to be who they are, not just in business, but what their personality is. What are their values? How is that reflected in their tone?
So when they show up wherever they show up, if they're showing up with their values with their family or in business or in the community, this is who they are. And trying to lead and getting more founders comfortable with that. Because like I said, especially my generation, was you got a of people in their 40s and their 50s who felt like they needed to be separate. And we're like, no, it's so.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (14:05.292)
And I think that's because, especially women, and I think that's where I saw more of it and was getting advice from other women. And it was, well, I can't be seen this way. And I think we just need to be more comfortable in who we are and bring all of us. All. They get all of this. Right?
Cat Dunn OBM (14:30.776)
I completely agree and I still see it now particularly like you said women struggle like I mentor women who want to become online business managers and the biggest thing they have the biggest issue aside from like what do I charge and how do I find clients is I don't know how to show up I don't know how to what should I say what should I sound like what content should I create and they just love themselves because I think like well how much can I show and the thing is you don't have to show all of it you can show whatever you like but people
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (14:44.344)
Right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (14:58.296)
Right.
Cat Dunn OBM (15:00.578)
in small businesses have an edge over people like Coca Cola or the Starbucks and all the big ones because they are going to buy from you. They're not necessarily as concerned about your service of product. It's like, well, do I like this person? Do I have the same values? Do I like what they sell for? And also if you have a little quirk, like my friend, she drinks espresso martinis. She's brought it into a brand. So now people recognize that like, God, you're the espresso martini person. It's just something to latch onto and then they get to know it. But it's a way in for people to be remembered.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (15:14.659)
Right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (15:29.55)
Right, exactly. Okay, so we're gonna go back to the horror. What is your, so I don't, I've been coming more comfortable talking about this, because I don't let a lot of people, but I'm a fan fiction writer in three different genres. One of them is in like thriller, horror, supernatural, kind of that. And then DC comics, DC Marvel fandoms that I write.
I fan fiction. It's really just, you know, soft, soft smut porn type of writing. Sorry, Chandler. Chandler's like, my God. But I do that just as like a release. But yeah, like the whore. And I go to Comic-Cons and it's like one of my favorite, you know, I collect fan art.
And it's so fun, those genres. But I know the horror side, like I've got friends in Tumblr that I have met all through the world, and we're all anonymous. don't know who we are, our names or anything, like we're very, you But I know some of my Tumblr friends who are in the super, are also very heavy in the horror, and I love reading their stuff.
I love watching when they go and visit the conventions and stuff. It's a whole, like, it's a world within a world.
Cat Dunn OBM (16:59.76)
It is definitely a world within a world. I started watching it from a age because my brother loved horror. But as I got older, I started going to conventions and in England there's something called Fright Fest, which is five days in a month in London. Oh, amazing. I love it. I miss going. we do, sit in these chairs for like 12 hours and watch brand new horror movies. I couldn't imagine doing anything like, it's the most fun I've ever had. so much, it's just, you meet these people who have the most creative brains and
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (17:11.99)
Yes, I just, had a friend that went, was there. Yeah.
Cat Dunn OBM (17:29.496)
And that when I kind of like really like analyze it, you know, because that's what we do as business owners. I realized that when I look at like the horror community, it's the same as kind of people who love like heavy metal or rock and roll music. These are the kids at school who didn't quite fit in, who did feel a bit weird, who felt like an outcast, who found solace in each other and express themselves in a way that they get to be angry or loud or different or wear cool clothes and have these interests that no one else understands. And so they form their own community. And as an oddball as a child, this was a community.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (17:40.526)
Yeah.
Cat Dunn OBM (17:59.362)
community I
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (18:03.982)
Right, the, because that's like, because especially like the special effects of like the old campy, know, whatever, red dye syrup and stuff in the old campy ones. And we talk about like, you know, and the super, you know, Sandman and, you know, Good Omens and Supernatural and Evil and all those kind of like the shows. some, you know, there's some of them are campy and kitschy.
Cat Dunn OBM (18:16.222)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (18:34.542)
over the horror, know, the scare. Yeah.
Cat Dunn OBM (18:34.66)
Yeah, I I love, I love the ones are like really, terrible. Cause sometimes they're just the most fun. it just like, back then it would have been like, it would have been groundbreaking.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (18:43.32)
That's the-
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (18:46.99)
Yeah, it's a it's so funny. My daughter, she's 13 is is her little group of friends. They go watch the scariest movies. I can't sit through them because like if they're too I like horror and super but more of the thrillers. But like the scare ones, I'm like, who makes my when I have to jump in the theater. But she looked like they laugh and giggle. I mean, they love it.
And you know, it's fun to have kids be able to celebrate that and also look at the, I call it the production value or the production non-value. They have, you know, just enjoy the production, the show, right? So what's your favorite?
Cat Dunn OBM (19:36.528)
Yeah. Yeah. I actually also have my favorite. So my favorite, which has been for a while because I kind of go through like every few years it'll change. But there's like Australian horror is actually really good. feel like the Korean horror and Australian horror are just phenomenal. That this is really it's quite a gross film. It's called The Loved Ones. And basically a girl asks a boy to prom. He says no. So her and her father kidnap him and torture him. It's a very simple premise, but it's just so nice.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (19:44.888)
fill all phases.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (20:03.406)
So it becomes like the saw.
Cat Dunn OBM (20:07.16)
But the thing is, it's not really rude to Australians. It's so Australian. When you watch it, you're oh my god, this is so Australian. That's why I fell in love with it. But my favourite horror character is Freddy Krueger. I love Freddy Krueger. I've got a Freddy Krueger figurine. I've got a Freddy Krueger little cuddly toy. I'm obsessed with Freddy Krueger. just think he's so funny, but so scary at the same time.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (20:13.23)
You
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (20:19.533)
Wow.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (20:28.878)
Exactly. Yeah. And then so it's like Johnny Depp's very first movie.
Cat Dunn OBM (20:33.58)
Exactly, yeah. mean, and Kevin Bacon is maybe was Friday the 13th. Like, the people start in horror and then do really well, or they actually jump into horror later on.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (20:34.925)
What is that?
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (20:40.878)
That's right, Kevin Bacon, the very first movie he was in. Was he in Friday the 13th? Was that his first movie or was it Animal House?
Cat Dunn OBM (20:47.888)
Yes, because he the arrow for the 5.30. No, was 5.30 because he gets killed in a holic.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (20:54.998)
Yeah, and he was like one of the first kills, See, yeah. That's right, that's right. I love that, that's fantastic. So who is, you know, here you went through this and you found kind of this community. Who's been the biggest cheerleader?
Cat Dunn OBM (20:58.18)
Yes, yes. See, people like it, everyone should like it.
Cat Dunn OBM (21:26.524)
What's so wonderful is I can't really just say one person because I realized that when I became small business owner, I started networking and going to events and connecting with people to the point now I'm like, there's so many people in my world that I wouldn't know if I didn't have a small business, which blows my mind. It scares me to think there's so many fantastic people that I wouldn't have in my life. But I...
I've had clients like when I went through the worst time and my business kind of collapsed because I'd left and I had nowhere to live etc. One client, she was with me for three and a half years, she stayed with me. She sent me money so could buy food. She checked in to see how I was doing. She kept saying like just do whatever work you can or still pay your regular rate. My sister supported me through it. Her brother-in-law, my brother-in-law, not her brother-in-law, supported me through it. My best friend in England was there like at the end of the phone.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (22:17.271)
Eh.
Cat Dunn OBM (22:21.796)
I was lucky that I had different pockets of people within different areas. So, know, I had family, had friends, but I also had business that were really like, what are you doing? How can we help you? Like I was in a mastermind and I was like, can't, I can't be part of this anymore because my brain's not functioning. I don't know what's happening. I need to take break and basically rebuild my life. Like absolutely fine. They group together and bought me a gift card. again, I could like, there you go, like go buy food or buy clothes, whatever you need. And to this day, like I think about it makes me emotional because so many women who leave don't have.
any money, you don't have anyone to live in. It's terrifying and I luckily had some people running around and just say, how can we support you? Which is what I'm trying to do moving forward for other women.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (22:51.278)
They don't have that community, yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (23:01.422)
What was the biggest challenge so like you know starting the business? Like the biggest shit like the the biggest barrier that you've had to face.
Cat Dunn OBM (23:15.216)
It was definitely, I used my business to hide away from the relationship to the point where the month before I left, I had like 11 clients and I was working nonstop and I was just like, go, go, go, because I was just trying to avoid everything that was happening. But then my whole life was so bad that I couldn't even escape into work anymore because it was burning me out because I was doing too much. So when I did leave, I had nowhere to live and I didn't really have any money and...
My brain just I just it was a mess So I had to bring some clients and say I just I can't I can't support you because I can't even support myself right now So basically my business dwindled from 11 clients to one and that one who stayed with me But obviously is not going to just pay for everything because that's obviously not appropriate. So I was as homeless I moved nine times in ten months. I had to go to court. I had to to the police I had to then think about how do I get a visa? How do I stay in Australia? What I need to do? So I was basically trying to
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (23:57.624)
Right.
Cat Dunn OBM (24:10.256)
exist in my business, but then exist in life. And so I had to spend quite a few months just trying to rebuild, how do I look like as a person? Where am I going to live? And then my business had to come. It was really hard because my business was everything to me. But in that experience, I realized that my business had become everything to me. And I was like, Oh God, I can't exist that way. Because what I've done is in my relationship, I was just trying to do everything I could to please him and become what he needed to the point where I was empty. And then I went to business and did the same thing. There's nothing left.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (24:20.536)
Right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (24:24.44)
Yeah.
Cat Dunn OBM (24:39.344)
So I had to focus on, let's rebuild me as a person before I go into some other world and then support their clients and their communities because you can't sell from an empty cup. I wasn't empty cup, I was a shattered glass. And that's when I realized I have to come first. I always have to come first. Otherwise this sort of thing will happen again.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (24:55.34)
Yeah, that's a big lesson I think that a lot of us should learn of, yeah, you've got to fill your cup first before you can, that other people can drink them from your. So what, did you seek out a coach? Like how did you do that? Like what was the steps you took or the people that you brought into your world to you discover yourself?
Cat Dunn OBM (25:26.0)
I actually discovered coaches about a year before I left the relationship because I'd been in therapy and it wasn't really helping and I found, I don't even know how I found this coach. It still blows my mind. I feel like the universe just gave me a gift and she had a community and it was a year long program.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (25:37.39)
Yeah.
Cat Dunn OBM (25:41.55)
And it was during that year that I started to realize, this isn't okay. What's happening. And I do, I do have the option to leave and I can rebuild. And so they started working with me on like my mindset and things like that. And then so once I left, I remained in the community and they were a big support for me. Cause I basically then had to kind of go through all the modules and all the work again, because I had to do it from basically me, me starting from the ground up.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (26:02.414)
Right.
Cat Dunn OBM (26:03.13)
how I want to show up now. So I was lucky that I already had her in my world and then naturally that coach led me to a relationship coach so she could teach me how to be in healthy relationships, how to be in healthy relationships with myself. Then I worked with a business coach once I felt more like right cool I can get back in the business now. So I they all led to each other but it was very much having a community of women around me who also do the work, who also be in similar situations, who can reflect back to you what it is you're experiencing and hold space for you as you try to figure out.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (26:29.976)
Yeah, yeah, and that's, yeah, that's, it's a journey. It's lifelong journey, exactly. And you know, we have a lot of those answers inside of it, but you do, you need to have somebody to help extract that and be a mirror and then just be supportive to heal. So if, looking ahead,
Cat Dunn OBM (26:35.286)
it's a lifelong journey, unfortunately.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (26:58.656)
Or if I gave you like a magic wand, if you could change two things about your business and everything that you're doing, what two things would you change?
Cat Dunn OBM (27:10.522)
hope my clients don't listen to this, but I feel like I would stop becoming, like stop being an online business manager. There's something, I'm not quite sure what it is yet, but there's something else I want to do that's more impactful. And the second thing would be, I would be a multimillionaire overnight from the point of view of all I want to do exactly, because all I want to do is invest in other women. I want to invest in the businesses. I want to give to...
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (27:29.624)
Who doesn't want that?
Cat Dunn OBM (27:37.22)
TV organisations, I want to put women back on the feet that the more money I have the more money I can help and I think money in the hands of people who want to do good is probably a really good thing. So those are the two things and that makes me excited. That makes me feel like, cool, how can I get that tomorrow? Like that's why I was thinking like, how can I get that quicker? But obviously the right way.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (27:52.877)
Right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (27:56.366)
So when you say, you you feel like there's something, that there's something out there for you. Like you're going, what's my next, what is that? Do you know what that is? Is that like doing another book? Is that a speech or is that like, what kind of impact are you, you wanna create more impact, freedom for women to have more freedom, to realize their potential.
and you're just like, I know what I'm doing is not enough. Is that kind of what I'm hearing?
Cat Dunn OBM (28:28.238)
Yes, I mean, I'm always like, what's more, what's more? And not from a shiny object thing, but more like I need to level up on the next step. So I feel like, the next thing that's going to happen for me is I created my own event called Life After I Left, where women can take a space on stage and tell their story about whatever it is that they've gone through and not necessarily do it. Yes, but much more relaxed, much more like let's have the conversation we're told we're not allowed to have. Like pulling up your best friend and saying,
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (28:30.947)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (28:47.606)
almost like a Ted X style type of a.
Cat Dunn OBM (28:56.592)
Do you have 10 minutes or something I really want to share with you? that, know, women have spoken about post-natal depression and chronic illness, bullying, body shame. And I've got my third event in May, but it's not enough of an impact because it's in Melbourne. It's not reaching everybody. So I'm going to turn that into a podcast. And to be honest, my goal is to be the Stephen Bartlett.
of that side of women, this side that we're not allowed to talk about, this side that we're not allowed to show. There's conversations that we need to have in order to create actual change in the world. And I'm by bringing attention to it, bringing in experts, and also by trying to change it in a real way, that I can basically end domestic violence in Australia. That's my mission. And then I'll go worldwide, but I'll focus on Australia right now. Sounds impossible. When change the world.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (29:38.062)
That's right. You could change the world. That's right.
create those, yeah, and a lot of people, sometimes it's just articulating that vision, the impact that you wanna have, and the universe starts finding those dot connections. So okay, so if we meet up next year and we're toasting to a success, to a win, what are we celebrating a year from now?
Cat Dunn OBM (29:51.375)
Yes.
Cat Dunn OBM (30:10.352)
This is hard because I'm like, all the things. I think the biggest celebration has to be, it's not for me because this isn't about me, that I'm not doing this for me. I want to have changed something. So I feel like a celebration would be...
Cat Dunn OBM (30:29.06)
I'm going to say what's coming to me would be I've opened my own foundation that is specifically supporting women through domestic violence giving them exactly what they need whether it's training whether it's starting up our business whether it's money whether it's shelter and we've already changed thousands of women's lives.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (30:49.838)
We'll make it, well, we're gonna manifest that. Put in the unibird, there we go. There we go. So if you look at...
Cat Dunn OBM (30:53.959)
Yeah, that just came through. I'm like, oh, okay.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (31:02.754)
you know, your journey, you know, as it was, what word describes the journey?
Cat Dunn OBM (31:14.861)
necessary.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (31:16.45)
Necessary, yeah. And then if you look ahead to your next chapter, what word describes the next chapter?
Cat Dunn OBM (31:32.216)
world changing.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (31:38.04)
What is it?
Cat Dunn OBM (31:39.28)
world changing. I've hyphened it. World changing. I want to change the world.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (31:41.58)
I missed it. What was the word?
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (31:49.549)
World changing.
Cat Dunn OBM (31:49.904)
time.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (31:53.122)
World changing, all right. world's changing. Did I get it? All right. What, because you work with coaches yourself, but also you're a coach and you work with different businesses. What's the best piece of advice that you received that you really took and incorporated into your decision making?
Cat Dunn OBM (31:58.028)
Yes.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (32:22.318)
I wanna know kinda like what advice you've been given.
Cat Dunn OBM (32:27.598)
I think this is something that I've been thinking about a lot recently and it's that failure is the best part. And obviously that can be business and it could be other areas of your life that, you know, if you had a launch that didn't do very well, your product's not selling.
You can sit and wallow and just be like, that's crap. It's not going to work. I'll just, I'll ignore it. But it's like, no, no, it's that's where you learn the lesson. If you look at incredible business or like look at anybody who created any product that's really successful, I guarantee they failed about a million times before it was successful. That's where you learn how it makes you more resilient. It makes you stronger. makes you.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (32:58.894)
Wow, absolutely.
Cat Dunn OBM (33:05.488)
work out the finer details. You have to fail in order to be successful and if you are scared of failing, I'm really sorry but you are not an entrepreneur because that's all we do every day and to be honest, it's a hell of a ride and you have to be ready.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (33:15.854)
That's right.
You got to be fearless in that. That's for sure. You know, it's I used to say like, you know, I just feel forward. I just keep falling, failing forward. But a few months ago, I don't know, maybe towards last, I start I stopped using failure in my vocabulary. I was like, you know, because it's either a win or a lessons learned because it's just a part of what we do. It is and it shouldn't be seen as a bad word or it's just it's a lesson.
That's it. Remove the fear. Remove the fear. Yeah. So what do you do on your free time other than you watch horror movies? What are you doing your spare time?
Cat Dunn OBM (33:52.216)
Yeah, absolutely.
Cat Dunn OBM (34:01.936)
You
Spare time, what does that look like? I definitely need to create more spare time. I love going to, like, love lifting weights. I love going to the gym. I love going on walks and listening to a podcast. I'm a writer and I like to write. Decompress, yeah, definitely. love, and I feel like walking, like you have to go outside. And it's like I do the creative, like nature and the beach or I crave being around people, but like the headphones on, but feeling the energy and hustle and bustle. But yeah, definitely exercise in some form.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (34:16.558)
kind of decompress.
decompress.
Cat Dunn OBM (34:34.254)
and reading and writing basically. I love to non-fiction.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (34:39.49)
Are you a nonfiction?
Cat Dunn OBM (34:41.471)
Yeah. Well, I think the problem is I read too many like post-development or business books. You're like, maybe I should just read something for fun. You know, like let's read a horror novel because it need to end up great.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (34:43.534)
How?
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (34:47.342)
I know.
We need to shake it up. Yeah, I got into the point where like all I was reading were like business books and everything and then then I just go into like my tumor go, okay, I need to read something. I need to read trash. I need to read something fun and which does kind of breaks up stuff and you think better. It makes your you you kind of bend your mind a little bit. So, so is the best piece of advice that you also give your
people that you coach, do you give them the same advice of, don't be afraid of failing or it's all about lessons learned? Or do you give, what is your go-to advice to give to people that you coach?
Cat Dunn OBM (35:36.336)
When I coach women, I'm finding out the same problems keep coming up and I find that I'm always saying, it's okay to be yourself.
And they go, go, okay, yeah, cool, cool. And they just dismiss it. But I'm like, no, no, it's okay to be yourself, however that looks. I don't mean, go on socials and bare your soul. What I'm saying is it's okay to be yourself. You do not have to be like that other person in the same business. You do not have to be like the other mum in the schoolyard. You don't have to be like me. And you don't have to be like yourself today as you were yesterday.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (36:05.198)
That's right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (36:08.77)
That's right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (36:14.232)
Great.
Cat Dunn OBM (36:14.978)
It sounds like, but it's like, get to decide how you want to shop. You get to decide how your business is. It's okay to be you and do it however you want. I'm sitting there going, like half the time I'm sat in a rock and roll t-shirt. I've got a big horror poster behind me. But at same time, I'm talking about systems and processes and data. And they're like, what? I'm like, because this is still me, I get to use my brain while still enjoying my surroundings. So you get to decide how it looks, however that is. Change your environment, change your, change the people you're around.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (36:26.946)
Right.
Cat Dunn OBM (36:41.712)
because half the time they're just around the wrong people. It's like, into my world and let me show you that it's okay to be you.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (36:46.774)
Right, be in the circle that you, that uplifts you, but also takes you, because as you go through your journey, you'll find that your circles do change. And those circles kind of push you forward. And even, you know, we've heard from different, even founders, know, male, female, doesn't matter. I think there is this, I don't know, like,
Cat Dunn OBM (36:56.356)
Yeah.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (37:14.574)
If people are hearing that, I know we've got a couple of founders that we've talked to that get this pressure from their board or, oh, you've got to show up and look like this. You've got to act like this. You've got to talk like this if you're a CEO. we're like, no, why you're successful, why you're at the level you're at is because you were a disruptor. You brought a unique
perspective, you didn't fit that mold. mean, Steve Jobs did not fit the corporate mold. There are people out there, it's like, just show up and be yourself and embrace it, understand it, and really cultivate it, because that's what's gonna elevate your business and make you stand out. It's not branding, whether it's a personal brand or a business brand, it's all about
showing up and being unique, your own value, and telling that unique story. Nobody remembers things that are just bland and vanilla and everything looks alike. You've gotta stand out from the rest of the pack. And I think our personal brands need to follow the same advice that we would give a company brand. It is who it is. That's the show up.
Cat Dunn OBM (38:36.44)
Yeah, I think some people think like, well I have to wear bright pink then or I'll have to like, you know, be really loud or have like, no, no, no, no, whatever it looks good to you. you know, it's what it looks good to you. People remember it if you're honest and it is authentic, like you say.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (38:41.324)
Right. Well, not if it's not you. Right.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (38:50.776)
Right, I know there's been a joke. I've been trying to put myself out there more, you know, where I hate, I'm not a, podcast has been a good healing moment for me of like putting, know, telling my story, giving advice, being a thought leader. But I joke around, started doing these Instagram pictures or on social and I always have like a cup. I'm always taking like a selfie with.
drinking and now you people are like is that what's what's in the glass and I'm like it's water but now people have been joking like all your pictures you're covering your face with a glass I was like yep that's my style that's that's one day I'll put the glass down but you know it's a whatever you just whatever you're comfortable with I think people need to find what makes them authentically
feel good, put the, you know, and represent themselves, but it's gotta be true to who they are.
Cat Dunn OBM (39:55.428)
Yeah, I often get called, I'm either the woman in red because I wear a red suit a lot, or I'm the chick that likes horror. I'm happy with both to be honest.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (40:05.272)
That's right. Hey, the fact that people remember you for things that are, you know, whether it's the suit or the whore, they, you were remembered.
Cat Dunn OBM (40:17.806)
Yeah exactly, I'm like that's good, that's good, I'll take that, that's fun.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (40:20.408)
That's good, we'll take that. this is fantastic. Okay, well, we're out of time, but before we go, where can people connect with you, learn more about what you're doing, help support you in any way, and then of course we'll tag everything, but yeah, give them, where do you want people to go?
Cat Dunn OBM (40:43.61)
So I'm on Instagram, Facebook and LinkedIn. I also have a website and all of them are Cat Louise Dunn, that's Cat with a C. So my website is katlouisedunn.com. So if you connect with me there, you'll find out all about what I'm doing, my events, my podcast when it's launched, which is very exciting and all the work I do with clients.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (41:04.141)
Perfect. Yeah, you'll have to tell us when you launch it. We'll have to tag it and everything. But I appreciate you hanging out with me today, especially so early in the morning.
Cat Dunn OBM (41:15.226)
Great reason to get up. This has been so much fun. Thank you.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (41:17.966)
This has been so fun, so glad to meet you and that you're a part of our community. This is great. For everyone listening or watching us, thank you for joining us. This podcast is available on all your favorite podcast platforms, so subscribe to Hello Chaos. Give us a five star review on Apple or Spotify. Share this great content and help us build a more connected entrepreneurial community.
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