In this episode of Hello Chaos, Jennifer "JJ" Sutton interviews Michelle Harris, CEO of Karst, who shares her unexpected journey into entrepreneurship, the importance of leadership, and the value of hiring for personality over skill. They discuss the challenges of running a business, the significance of community and support among entrepreneurs, and the misconceptions surrounding entrepreneurship. Michelle reflects on her growth, the gratifying aspects of her journey, and offers valuable advice for aspiring entrepreneurs.
Key Takeaways
Embrace Your Unique Path
The Power of People
Find Your Tribe
Timestamps
03:14 Embracing Leadership and Personal Growth
06:10 Navigating the Challenges of People Management
09:04 The Importance of Hiring for Personality
12:20 Refining the Recruitment Process
15:15 The Reality of Entrepreneurship
18:17 Building a Supportive Community
23:19 Finding Your Tribe
26:52 Aha Moments in Business
30:31 Reflections on Growth and Change
34:08 Balancing Business and Personal Life
37:05 Advice for Founders and Entrepreneurs
Connect with Michelle:
Website: https://karstpromo.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michellepoirier/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/karstpromo/
Hello Chaos (00:00)
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (00:13)
Well, hello, welcome to Hello Chaos, the weekly podcast exploring the messy and chaotic lives and minds of founders and entrepreneurs. Today we have Michelle Harris, CEO and Controller of Chaos at Karst. I love that title. Thank you for coming onto our podcast and chatting with us today, Michelle. How are you doing?
Michelle Harris (00:36)
Good, you're welcome. Happy to be here.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (00:38)
great. tell us about how did you get started? How did your entrepreneurial journey begin?
Michelle Harris (00:47)
You know, honestly, it was kind of by accident. It wasn't intentional at all. I was on a completely different creative track in the music industry. And my dad had this company. I kind of moved back home away from Nashville and it was, I was just kind of finding my footing. Okay, what am I going to do in Charleston now? And he had a creative company versus my mom who had a more professional, she owned an employment agency. And I was like, you know, this is kind of, this is kind of cool. I'll go do this for a little bit till I figure out.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (00:54)
Wow.
Michelle Harris (01:16)
where I'm going to be. And he had a one man show just doing your typical promotional product distributor. And I slowly transitioned that into something that was my own and kind of found that I liked being an entrepreneur and that that was something that that wasn't my that's not what I set out to do.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (01:17)
Right.
Yeah, yeah, me neither. always I'm like, I call myself this a serendipitous entrepreneur of it just it just happened to evolve the opportunity. So, you know, so you you take over. what is Karst? You say you're the controller of chaos, by the way. I love that. I love that. I need to I need to have something more fun than just CEO of because we do so many things. So
Michelle Harris (01:42)
Hehe.
Yeah, very much.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (02:10)
How did you get, did you come up with like the controller of chaos? I love that.
Michelle Harris (02:10)
Yeah.
We have a very fun culture and a very fun team. And this is a very fun industry. And so we just are very playful in a lot of the things that we do. So we all have like our project assistant, she's a project wrangler. We just all have a fun title and they felt like that really fit for me, especially.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (02:20)
Mm-hmm.
That's right. Well, people always have like the podcast is Hello Chaos because when we came up with the name, so many founders and entrepreneurs really responded to that name to go, yeah, we sit in chaos or we welcome it. We've got to attack it. We live in chaos a lot of times. So we live in it. That's right.
Michelle Harris (02:51)
We live in it, yep.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (02:57)
What have you discovered about yourself during your journey here? You left Nashville, which is fascinating that you were in the music industry, going back to Charleston and kind of entering into this entrepreneurial space. What did you discover about yourself?
Michelle Harris (03:14)
I discovered that, I really like being a leader more than I thought I ever would. it's a struggle for me. I'm kind of a, I would say I'm extrovert when I want to be, but introvert most of the time I want to be, you know, I'm that, I'm that person that makes plans and then I'm cussing when I gotta go, you know? but I,
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (03:28)
Yeah. That's me. Yeah, yeah. Or you get invited to things and you're like, my God, I need to be there. OK, I got to pump myself up. I got to like get in the mode. Yeah.
Michelle Harris (03:43)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I have to force myself and then I'm so glad that I did. I never really regret it, but it takes a lot of effort to get me out the door mentally.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (03:48)
Yeah.
What did we hear for? So we've heard a couple of terms. I'm the same way. People think I'm an extrovert, but I'm not. It drains. I have to put myself up. I've had to teach myself to network, because it's not something that comes natural to me. I have to go and these are the, this is my little elevator speech, or this is the three questions I like to ask people. I feel like I'm more programmatic, but what are?
But we've heard a couple of terms of ambivert is a term that we've heard from other founders who are like, I'm not an extrovert, but I have to be an extrovert. I'm really an introvert. I feel like that's become a theme a lot that we hear. And somebody else was like, which I love that term, it a learned extrovert? A learned one. I was like, yeah, that probably describes me.
Michelle Harris (04:23)
I'm burnt, yep.
Extrovert. Yep.
Yeah, a hundred percent. I would say it's brought me some advantages though too, because from a sales perspective, I've never been that salesy person. So I lead with, with just want to have relationships and help people and people gravitate towards that. So I don't know. Yeah. And it's, but it's just my personality. I'm not, I'm not that person that's forward and out front, but
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (04:55)
yeah.
Yeah, it's more authentic, right? Yeah.
Michelle Harris (05:16)
when I have to be, I think it comes across more genuine because it is.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (05:22)
So what are some tips that you've had to do, or what are things that you, like rituals or disciplines, that are like, OK, I got to go to this event, or I've got to go do this. you have like what I was talking about? I'm I have to think through what I need to do to come across as more of an extrovert. Do you do anything like that?
Michelle Harris (05:46)
I don't really have a strategy around it. I try to learn what I can about the event, like who's going to be there, what kind of space or, you know, my dressing appropriately. just try to be prepared so that I'm not kind of thrown off by what I'm going to, but it's more for me about just not kind of chickening out.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (06:08)
Yeah, yeah, just showing up. Yeah, yeah, that's on the same way. It's like once I get there, I'm like, okay. And then when I leave, I'm like, okay, I need to go. I need a time out for myself. Recharge.
Michelle Harris (06:10)
Yeah, yeah, once I show up, I'm good.
Yeah, it's nice to hear that other people have that issue too because you see all the other people in the room and you assume that they don't.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (06:28)
I know. And there are some, like I said, very natural extroverts, founders and entrepreneurs that just like I admire. like, God, you really know how to work a room. I don't know how to do that. I've tried to teach myself the last couple of years. Like I said, I'm like, OK, I need to go. This is what I've seen other people do. And this is where we heard from another founder of like, you have to be a learned.
extrovert of What's that? What's that programming? Because I'm amazed when I go and watch people like work the room or you know listening to them and how they sell and approach and not really sell but more of just like building the relationships and I'm like, my god, I don't that just is it is not natural for me and but I've worked on that over the last couple of years this podcast I started this couple years ago was really kind of a
Michelle Harris (07:14)
Mm-hmm.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (07:27)
default to like, I like having conversations. It kind of gets me out of my comfort zone. And I really love the podcast. Maybe it's because I'm sitting in a studio by myself. But I like it. It's relationships and just learning about people. And I think in my own way, right?
So what have you found has been the most challenging? So, you know, kind of entered this, you're a CEO, you're a leader, you've grown this company. What's been the most challenging aspect?
Michelle Harris (08:06)
I would say for me, it's been people. I have learned kind of the hard way, but that's our best asset. That's the way to scale. That's the way to grow. We've kind of attacked it from all angles, just like everyone else does with processes and things and vision. And we're really streamlining that here lately going through EOS. I don't know if you're familiar with that process, but we're going.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (08:17)
them.
Yeah.
yeah, yeah, very much so, yeah.
Michelle Harris (08:36)
through that process and implementing that. And that has just kind of made me understand even more so how our people are really our biggest asset. When I transitioned, yeah, when I transitioned from hiring for skill versus personality, that was a big switch for me. Hiring.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (08:48)
Hmm. We're in the people business.
So for personality, for hiring, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was our, I would say, an aha for me a few years ago of finding the right fit from an attitude personality. We can teach skill for the most part. There's some things a part of our business that we do need some good skills, but it's really attitude.
Michelle Harris (09:04)
Yes, versus skill.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (09:30)
They've got to have the right personality traits. It forced us, I don't know if you had to do this. Well, with EOS, you probably, but to really uncover what are your values and what are the type of people you need to be looking for? What characteristics and traits embody all that? mean, did you, because EOS forces you to, like you've got to do that discovery.
Michelle Harris (09:53)
Well, it's forced us, right, but that's been very recent. So I kind of was forced into discovering all that the hard way. And then when she do hire a few people that really do care and they really do have the loyalty and they really are in it to build and grow with you and kind of do whatever's needed and plug whatever holes are there. That's when you just, you kind of see the difference in what you.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (10:01)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Michelle Harris (10:21)
did have and what you have now and then you try to replicate that.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (10:24)
That's right. it's, you know, I've talked about this with some other founders too. It's amazing when you bring that energy in to your team of, it's not rocket-like. It's like, you just need people that give a shit. Like, care. I mean, you're, the Orange Whip, you know, is a media company, but I own a marketing firm, you know, so it's in the, you know, it's.
similar businesses is what Karst is and we've got clients that we have to serve. And what we found is like, if you don't give a shit about the clients, that's like the number, like you've got to care. And then you've also got to care about your teammates and then have some personal integrity of like, don't you care about your work? And, and people think, well, that should be an easy, that should be an easy hire. I'm like, no, that is not an easy hire.
Michelle Harris (11:03)
Mm-hmm.
No, it's not.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (11:21)
But it's amazing when you do get those right people the energy that happens on the team. And because on the reverse side, when you have people that don't care or it drains the energy out of the room and it makes everybody's life harder.
Michelle Harris (11:46)
Yep. And I have been the worst at fire slow, fire fast.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (11:51)
I'm saying, I know they tell you, but you also want to go, I mean, I've had our coaches go, you knew within 30 days, and it's like, you knew within 90 days. I'm like, yeah, but maybe I can get them to like, ugh. And then it's like, you know what? No, we've been patient long enough. But that's the hardest part, especially when they're, you know they're good people.
They're just not a good fit.
Michelle Harris (12:22)
Right. Yep.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (12:23)
They don't have that drive. They don't have that. And it has nothing to do with skill set. It's just a lot of it is the, it's the personality.
Michelle Harris (12:34)
Yep. And I've been fortunate to find a few kind of the world sent them to me. You know, I didn't have the OS, I didn't have my visions, I didn't have my value. I didn't have it all lined out so that I could hire quickly. when you find those few and you realize how it doesn't have to be that hard, you just need to have find more of them. You know, it doesn't have to be such a struggle. So it really is about the people for us.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (12:40)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
So it is so much so. So what have you done to like find, like have you changed your interview process or how you recruit? Have you done anything differently from that aspect or?
Michelle Harris (13:15)
First of all, I'm not doing it anymore. That's helped.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (13:18)
You're like, we'll delegate that.
Michelle Harris (13:22)
So someone else on our team that is much more, she's just great at that, about finding people and having the conversations and being structured and being a little bit harder in what she's asking and kind of her approach, she's testing from every interaction. So when she puts it out there, you know, she's texting people to get the phone call and seeing who responds fastest and how they respond and.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (13:48)
Right.
Michelle Harris (13:51)
when they send a resume in, did they title it or is it just, know, some random? So all these little details are things that she's paying attention to that are important to us in our daily, you know, communication skills, organization skills, but things that I wouldn't have thought to really pay attention to, especially at that stage. So that's been helpful, just her approach, and she's found us some great, some great people.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (14:04)
That's right.
Yeah.
It is amazing. We implemented, what was it, about a couple years ago, we changed our interview process because we recognized very similar, like we're bringing people in that just, you we need to weed out those that just don't have it. They're not a good fit. How do we test for that? was, you know, we changed our process to be like a four-step interview.
stage process because it's like if you can get through We see you really want to work for us We're just not a job that you're just looking to fill so that was kind of the weed out we put in and I'm gonna give this tip for I mean You're you're you're hitting it, but a lot of founders entrepreneurs companies need to put these these things in place, especially For our businesses that are marketing and communication have clients like if you care about how people communicate written
or phone or whatever, you we had to put in little, you know, you need to send your, we implemented like homework, because we wanted to see, it wasn't necessarily the answers, it was how they thought and how they could communicate in writing, and in a structure format, to see if they could follow directions. So even just like, this is what we need you to do next step.
Michelle Harris (15:32)
Mm-hmm.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (15:44)
And we had, you know, very similar, like, did they send to this email that we instructed? We had so many that didn't or never filled out the homework or, I mean, it just weeded out. We couldn't get people like the stage two. And it was self-weeded. And we were like, know what? It was a great first interview, but they couldn't even get to the step two.
Michelle Harris (16:05)
Yep, exactly.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (16:13)
They didn't want it. They're not a good fit. just to not, I think, we needed to be more unapologetic for having those processes of, because it's very time consuming and energy draining when you have the wrong people. Yeah.
Michelle Harris (16:36)
Yeah, we don't have a very, we don't have it structured as much as you do like step one, step two, but there's all different touch points as far as different types of communication. Like I said, she'll initially reach out via text to see how quickly we get response, what that looks like. Then there's an email asking a few different questions. And, know, if we get the big long paragraph back versus the person that sends like the bulleted list, that's like, okay, check, you know, very organized and straight to the point.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (16:45)
Right.
That's so smart.
You're right. Yeah.
Michelle Harris (17:05)
And then there's face-to-face. Yeah. Or more recently, very clear AI. It's like that they didn't even modify to be their own. We've seen some of that.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (17:05)
Yeah, capitalization and periods.
Well, yeah, I believe it. It's interesting. I talked to another founder. And the reason why we implement it, because we heard that from a couple years ago from a smaller firm here in the upstate. And they're very specialized. And they're a PR firm. And she was struggling with, I guess, or feeling guilty. Maybe she was missing out on good candidates.
Because she posted something on LinkedIn. They had over 300 inquiries. But they only had five that actually followed the instructions. And she was like, some of the ones that sent, these were amazing. Amazing resumes and amazing bios. And they would have been great team members. But she was like, but they didn't.
Michelle Harris (18:00)
believe it.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (18:17)
follow the instructions. And I was like, well, you put those rules in place. But they found really much better candidates by sticking to what their rules were. I think that's just like all founders, business owners out there can't stress enough of stick to those rules. It will work out.
Because you're going to self weed. So, okay, if you had to sum up your journey in one word, what do think your word would be?
Michelle Harris (18:49)
Yep, 100%.
I would say gratifying.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (19:03)
why? What's been gratifying?
Michelle Harris (19:05)
Just seeing my journey, just seeing the company grow. It started out as my dad's company and then I'm able to still be here, you know, through the economy, through COVID and still thriving and growing. That's been awesome to see and to see a team that's growing with me and they're able to have their own successes because of their job and our freedoms where most of us are moms.
So being able to have the flexibilities and still have great incomes and jobs and kind of, we don't always have the best balance, but that's what we strive for.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (19:31)
Yeah.
That's everything's aspirational, right? About our brand.
Michelle Harris (19:44)
Yeah, so the fact that I'm able to do that for myself, but also other people has been awesome.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (19:50)
I love that word and I don't think we've had that word. Yeah, we like almost a thousand interviews. It's a different word every time. That's why I love asking it. And we all have like very, you know, lot of similarities in the journey, but we all choose kind of our own word and how we define it. So I love yours gratifying. Yeah.
Michelle Harris (19:59)
It's awesome.
Success is, yeah, success is different for everybody.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (20:15)
for everybody, that's right. So were there any myths or misperceptions you had about kind of running a company, scaling a company, kind of being that leader that you're like, no, this is not what I thought it was gonna be?
Michelle Harris (20:33)
I mean, I think people from the outside looking in think it's just easy that you run the business, you know, you have all the time in the world. Everybody has everything for you. You have all the money. Quite the opposite. So I think anyone on the outside looking in, you know, even if I speak to friends that don't own businesses, they don't completely get it. So the fact that you do things like this and other groups are out there to kind of have a sounding board and a place for
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (20:43)
Yeah, that is not true. That's right.
Michelle Harris (21:03)
entrepreneurs and owners because it is a lonely place sometimes because not everyone understands it. But that's the misconception is that you're kind of like at the top and you're the top dog and all the things are just spinning.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (21:08)
It is. That's right. Yeah.
It's like happening. You've got all the freedom. And it's like, ugh. Yeah, it's interesting. That's the goal. What do I want? I want freedom to, I want financial freedom to be able to make decisions for hiring or invest in expansion or freedom to basically take a couple weeks for a vacation and not have to freak out. And that would be, yeah, that would be the ultimate.
Michelle Harris (21:22)
I mean, that's the goal.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (21:48)
The freedom. But it's interesting, I don't know if you went through this, Michelle, as you started getting into that, your, you know, my friend circle was, they didn't understand. You know, they're like, okay, we can tell something's going on, you're stressed. And then when I would, they're like, we don't get it. So I had to, I had to like contain, I've got my friends from high school, college, you know, growing up, but I can't really share a lot of stuff with them.
And I've had to really form a different kind of, I call it founder, CEO, peer community, basically not to feel so isolated. I needed a sounding port of just, I didn't like the feeling completely alone and crazy and needed support of am I making the right decisions? Am I?
Have I not thought through something when I run into a challenge? Because, even my colleagues that I grew up in the agency world who were still working for agencies were not helpful. They could not relate. I don't know if you went through that, dealing with different, and having to form a different circle, a community for yourself.
Michelle Harris (23:12)
Yeah, think part of that back to the introvert. I think I was going through that, but it didn't really bother me because I keep everything here anyway. But more recently, I've kind of found that tribe of of entrepreneurs and I'm kind of I'm seeing the value and having the sounding board and having the other perspectives and and the help. But I definitely felt and saw, you know, that you just don't share.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (23:15)
Yeah.
You
Michelle Harris (23:40)
with those other groups of people because, you know, they don't really understand and you don't want to be the downer and you don't, so you just, you just keep it. You don't really, you know, you're talking about something else. So, but that didn't really, I didn't, I didn't see that. Yeah, I didn't, I didn't really see that as a negative. I don't think I really recognized it until I had the opportunity to kind of have the other side of it. I was like, okay, this is, this is awesome.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (23:46)
Right.
All right,
Or you're like, they're like, how's the business? Great.
Yeah, that was a big aha for me. In 2018, when I found that tribe, I didn't know that I was missing it or didn't realize that gap until you were able to express. I'm like, my God, this feels like I'm so thirsty for this. It feels good. So what have you found? What have you discovered about yourself in your journey?
Michelle Harris (24:27)
Mm-hmm.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (24:38)
That was like a aha for you about yourself personally.
Michelle Harris (24:48)
that I'm that I'm capable of being more introvert, quieter person. Didn't always have the biggest confidence to kind of go out and do big things or do things. But I've had a lot of people behind me that are just like, just do it. Just do it. And I've realized very recently and I feel like kind of not too late, but I wish I would have figured it out earlier that I'm just not scared. I'm just going to do it. And if it doesn't land, if it's
then we'll just deal with it.
So I think that my hesitation for a long time, just because I'm more on the quieter side and didn't have the confidence to kind of think that I was that person, is quickly going away. But I still struggle with it. It's like I gotta force myself to go to that meeting. Well, I gotta force myself to do that too, but I'm less fearful. that's.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (25:31)
You are that person. Yeah. I know. I know.
That's right.
so becoming more of a fearless leader. Yeah, a little bit like, hey, it's baby steps, baby steps. What do you think is the biggest aha for you, like as you run in the business?
Michelle Harris (25:47)
Little bit. Little bit. Little bit. Yes.
running the business. A big aha for me was I took this over from my dad, not knowing the industry, not really knowing, just kind of threw myself into it like, I'll go sell something. That's literally how I came into it. And he had to abruptly leave for some health problems, which he came back and was fine.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (26:00)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Michelle Harris (26:24)
By the time he came back, I had changed so many things that he was like, I think you've got this and he left me with it. And so. Yeah, I operated just kind of the way that I knew for, I don't know, probably. Six, eight years, and then I found kind of my tribe within our industry. I want to say like the cool kids. And I realized that the way that I was operating was a novel.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (26:30)
That's so wonderful.
Yeah.
Michelle Harris (26:52)
way to approach what I was doing in this industry. So that was very much an aha moment because I realized that I was already one of them and didn't know it and I was already doing things differently and didn't know it. And so that's what we've really kind of expanded on and scaled and what has made us different because we're approaching this kind of commoditized industry in a much different way that makes it have a lot more value and significance for our clients.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (27:04)
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I think that's a good lesson for, as a marketing person and a branding, it's like everybody, even if you're in an industry that has a sea of the commoditized, you're approaching it differently. There is some uniqueness that you've gotta uncover. And the fact that you kinda uncovered it as like an aha of like, shit.
You know, serendipitously, you were like, we were doing it differently, but the fact that you could go and that's relevant and that's meaningful, because we talked to companies that are like, I don't do anything, I'm just selling product. It's like, but you'd be more valuable if you thought about your brand in a way that's unique, because everybody approaches it. There's gotta be something, a part of that. So I love that, that's a good.
you know, that's a good celebration moment.
Michelle Harris (28:14)
Yeah, it was definitely eye opening. And I was like, we need to be putting this out there and marketing this that we're not the guy down the street. So that was big for us.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (28:20)
Yeah.
That's right. And give you guys that confidence, that little boost of we are the cool kids. We're setting the trends.
Michelle Harris (28:27)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, so now that's become a little more commonplace, but it was nice to see it when no one else was was doing it.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (28:40)
That's right. What about, what was your biggest shit? Like where, like where you hit a wall or you're like, a big challenge. What was the biggest shit moment and how'd you overcome it?
Michelle Harris (28:53)
I've been really lucky. want to say maybe it was COVID or maybe it was losing a large client. But I've been really conservative in the way that we have kind of scaled and spread things. I'm happy to say that I haven't had a big... We've had some near ones where a client relationship might go south, but we were able to salvage it.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (29:13)
like a disaster or anything.
Michelle Harris (29:22)
or, you know, we were able to fix it. So know that I've had just this massive, shit moment that like really affected us long term.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (29:22)
Yeah.
Yeah, and it might be just how you approach things of, I'm just watching and going, if you did, you would just go, okay, well, we're just gonna fix it. We're just gonna address it. We'll figure it out. If you could change two things about your business today, like right off the bat, two things, what would you change?
Michelle Harris (29:44)
I'm gonna figure it out.
That's the hope.
I would change that I didn't make some of the growth in the changes that I've made in the last two years. I wish I would have started some of these tracks that I'm on 15 years ago, know, hindsight. So I stayed small intentionally and had kids and kind of, you know, grew family. And, and I often look back and say, okay, I had, could go left or right. And I chose right. What if I had just pushed through and done left then?
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (30:13)
Eh.
Yeah, hindsight is always 20-20.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Michelle Harris (30:32)
So that's one thing that I would probably, I could rewind.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (30:36)
rewind, you would do that. Yeah, I've often thought like, wish I could go back and redo that meeting. or yeah, it's a hindsight is always 2020. So if we met a year from now,
I came down to Charleston and I took you out for cocktails. What would we be celebrating?
Michelle Harris (31:03)
We would be celebrating.
you so much. We're going to celebrate.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (31:09)
well let's manifest it. Let's roll it off. Let's have multiple shot. It'll be a shot shot shot.
Michelle Harris (31:13)
What?
We are, we just moved into a new facility, so we're working on a new office. I think we'd be celebrating here. It would be all complete, and we would have doubled our business. How about that?
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (31:25)
nice.
There you go. Well, let's let's manifest that double the size celebrate the new facility all moved in. All right. We'll make a date. Well, we'll share some cocktails. What's the best advice that you've been given? I mean from your dad or mentor. Like you said you found your tribe. What advice that you've been given that you've really taken to heart and have applied to your own business.
Michelle Harris (32:01)
a tough one too. I'll probably answer this and come up with something better in a little bit. you know, something always stuck with me. My mom also owned her own company. And one day she said to me, she said, you never want to have cash cow.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (32:04)
Hahaha!
Yeah.
Michelle Harris (32:17)
So you never, you know, when things are going great, you're pulling out and you're doing all this fun stuff. She's like, you never want to have never want to have cash cow. And that one statement just stuck with me to always be trying to be conservative, to put back in, to build, to grow. So there have been a lot of, you know, when things are, are flowing and there's a lot to spare, you know, so easy to kind of pull out and do this or, you know, kind of take advantage of that. But her, her recommendation and her
Just that one statement stuck with me and it's been super helpful because when things are leaner and you have a pro share from that, then you're not having those shit moments.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (32:52)
Yeah.
Right, right, because then you've got that little pool that you get. no, that's great. Now, do you ever get stressed or, you know, is there, do you balance well? This is something that's been my kind of my growth journey of the last couple years I've tried to work on my mental health, but also getting, just trying to approach a healthier lifestyle.
Michelle Harris (33:01)
Yep. Yep.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (33:26)
Is there, because it's stressful, like being running a business. Do you have good balance? Do you have a routine or disciplines that you?
Michelle Harris (33:39)
I try to maintain that, but I'm also the person that wants to get back to the client that wants to do all the things that's struggling to delegate. So, and I have two kids, one that's small. So that kind of is a constant push and pull, you know, I'm never in the right spot. I always need to be in the other one. So I try to have, yeah, whichever one I'm at, I need to be in the other one. So there needs to be two of me. So.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (33:45)
Yeah.
Yeah.
And feel guilty, whichever, wherever you go, it's that guilt. Yeah.
Michelle Harris (34:08)
I would say that I don't have the best balance, but I'm always working on that. Like I want to be present for them. So that's the huge motivator, right? Is that I don't work 24 seven because of them. So as far as stress, it's, know, control of chaos. It's stressful. But I'm pretty good at, I'm pretty good at like keeping that pretty level for the most part. It rears its head sometimes.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (34:12)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Michelle Harris (34:37)
But that's the reason for all these things that we're putting in place is the US and the processes so that we can have some so we all can have more balance, more clarity, more help and have.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (34:47)
right more processes it's kind of that get those automations in you said that you're it's new to you EOS is how far are you guys in and
Michelle Harris (34:51)
Yep. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
So I read the book, it was recommended to me like three times within about three months. And so six months later, I started the book. But I read it and I was like, this makes a ton of sense. This is what we need, this is what we have needed. So we started to try to self-implement a few months ago. And there's just so much going on, like it wasn't very efficient. So we just signed on with a formal implementer. We're at the beginning stages, but already we're seeing
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (35:08)
Yeah
Makes a lot of sense.
Michelle Harris (35:30)
like the light at the of the tunnel. It feels more chaotic, like you've got to make a mess to clean up kind of thing. But it's going to be a good thing for sure. But we're in the beginning stages.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (35:35)
Right, right.
Yeah. Will you change your title?
Michelle Harris (35:43)
You know, I thought about that. I'm like, well, that really, maybe that won't apply. That would be a great thing if it doesn't apply.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (35:48)
That's right. Work yourself out of the controller of chaos title. You'll be the controller of calm. How's that?
Michelle Harris (35:52)
Mm-hmm.
Works for me. But I'm also the visionary, so I'm going to make the chaos. They've got to hold me down.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (36:03)
Yeah, because you always got to keep inventing and you know keep growing and scaling. I think we all are great. It's like we can't stop thinking. well this has been fascinating. I love this. So okay you have two kids.
Michelle Harris (36:09)
Yep. I'm the cause of a lot of the chaos.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (36:27)
and you're growing and scaling, what advice would you give to another founder? What would be your best advice that you would give?
Michelle Harris (36:37)
I would say to find that quick because you don't know what you don't know. And I'm constantly learning, growing. I'm, I'm constantly trying to suck in anything and everything that I can. And that doesn't always come from, you know, reading something or a book. Yeah. So knowing people that have been through it and gotten to where you want to be or on their way or
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (36:44)
That's right.
It's not coming from books, no.
Michelle Harris (37:05)
Maybe want a completely different direction. You can learn so much from that. So I would say don't stay siloed. I stayed siloed way too long.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (37:08)
That's right.
Yeah, I'm gonna echo that. If I could hit rewind, I think that's what I would, my biggest thing would be, I wish I would have found the tribe 10 plus years ago when I started the company, like right off the bat. I was, I mean, I was even intimidated when I look back, like not even to go into the small business center.
Michelle Harris (37:29)
Thank
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (37:42)
Like that intimidated me of I don't belong there. They're not gonna give me advice. That's just for other businesses. That's not really for startup. And it's like, my gosh, I wish I would have had more confidence to just, or to go grab coffee with people and find the tribe. once you kind of find it, you realize from a founder and owner, entrepreneur community,
We're pretty giving of our time, I have found. There is, like I know I do that, that if somebody calls or sends me an email, I will have coffee, cocktails, lunch with, you know, I give my time to anybody that needs it. And I found that we all seem to have that similar trait of the connections in the community. So, yeah.
Michelle Harris (38:38)
And I think if you can, you you are who you spend time with sometimes. So if you can elevate the people that you're, you know, you're looking, yeah, that elevates you. And also within your industry, there's always so many, at least within ours, there's so much contention. you're a competitor, you're, you know, I'm not, you know, they're not going to help. Once I found the people that actually got it, like I did, there is none of that within that circle of people.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (38:45)
Mm, your circle, yeah.
Yeah.
That's right.
Michelle Harris (39:07)
And it's really cool thing to see. I would say search that out within your industry. Cause there are people that will help you. There are people that were your friends. They won't look at you as a competitor. Like there's enough, there's enough for everybody.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (39:15)
That's right.
Right, there's enough for everybody. I can't, because I've had people, other people are like, I don't want my competitors to come to this event. I was like, why? We're not enemies. We can all learn from it. We all have our space. So yeah, I'm in that same mindset of like, not just like you're going to disclose your P &Ls, but to have a friendly conversation, camaraderie, networking, community.
We all benefit from those learned experience, and they're out there. Right. Well, that's right.
Michelle Harris (39:51)
and they're out there. They may not all have that mindset. A lot of them won't have that mindset. So those are the ones that don't come. But the ones that do, that are there for each other, those are your people.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (40:04)
That's right. Those are your people. That's right. Well, I this. I'm like, I'm always amazed how fast these goes. We're already out of time. Before we leave though, Michelle, tell people, how can they get a hold of you, connect with you, learn more about Karst and the things that you guys offer your clients? How do you want people to connect?
And that's K-A-R-S-T, right? Promo.
Michelle Harris (40:35)
Promo, p-r-o-m-o dot com.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (40:39)
Perfect, perfect. And so we'll.
Michelle Harris (40:42)
Instagram, email. I'd love to chat with anybody and kind of show off what we can do.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (40:48)
Perfect, and we will tag you and the company as we publish this episode. I appreciate you hanging out with us today. This was fantastic. Good to, our pleasure. And for our listeners, thanks for hanging out with us today as well. This podcast episode, again, is available on all podcast platforms, so subscribe to Hello Chaos. Give us a like, a comment, a share, and a great review. Help us grow and build a more connected entrepreneurial community.
Michelle Harris (40:57)
Yeah, thank you. Thanks for having me.
Jennifer "JJ" Sutton (41:18)
HelloCast is one of the many resources brought to you by OrangeWIP. That is OrangeWIP, W-I-P for Work in Progress, because that's what we all are. OrangeWIP is a multimedia company dedicated to serving founders and entrepreneurs in affiliate cities. We are in three South Carolina cities today looking to expand to other cities and markets, because every city needs an OrangeWIP. We are a one-stop content hub just for founders.
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Hello Chaos (42:07)
you